The government doctors advice has changed now it is NO alcohol in pregnancy ane when trying to conceive at all

[zippitippi]

.....

early alcohol can damage the egg and cause miscarriage and facial deformities, later it can cause a spectrum of brain damage and low birth weight

so the new advice is abstinence

this brings this country into line with eg the US

interestingly obstetricians are sticking with 1 to 2 units a week

times online

That's where you are wrong madamez. In fact they have done studies on child development and behaviour that have hypothesised whether there is a possible link between increases in bad behaviour and increased amounts of alcohol drunk by women in society generally. There could be a link and although very severe cases of FAS are still rare, they really don't know whether milder brain damage occurs at lower levels.

Women really didn't drink excessively in previous generations. My mother's generation would have at most a couple of glasses of cinzano and lemonade. It has become far more acceptable for women to drink a lot, and frequently. This is well documented - women in this country drink far more than ever before, and than in other countries.

I guess I knew from reading the incredulity of earlier posts that I was going against the trend of the thread, and so am not surprised.

It was only when I did a lot of research and reading around FAS that I discovered half the facts I now know. I stand by my assertion that I believe that there is a low level of awareness of the damage alcohol can do, and this leads to a laissez-faire attitude amongst us. I include myself in this - I wish I had known more about it earlier.

Cloudhopper: WTF?? Are you really trying to suggest that there is an accepted medical definition of "bad behaviour"? And do you actually know what "hpyothetical" means? And even the talk of "developmental delay" is all but meaningless in a lot of cases - there was another woman-bashing news scare a while ago (if you're not a SAHM your child's devlopment will be delayed, etc) - the usual round of bullshit about how women are mad to think they can have it all (ie be full human beings - after all, they don;t have cocks so how can they be human). As was pointed out by someone with half a brain at the time, if a child walks at 18 months instead of 14 months, you might call it developmental delay but it's not exactly a big deal.
Women are entitled to make their own decisions about what they do with their bodies, especially if it comes to restricting their lives because of foetuses as yet unconcieved, which may never be concieved.

Sounds like good advice to me. I sat horrified through my ante-natal classes where many of the Women were boasting about how much alcohol they were drinking. Now it is more black and white maybe such Women will think twice before they drink, think about how the baby is feeling. I rememebr being surprised when I saw my doctor that he mentioned a list of foods to avoid but said nothing about the risks of Alcohol whatsoever, nor was it mentioned at Ante-natal classes or literature given to me. No wonder some Women are confused.

I'm with naomi wolf on this. she argues that the infantalisation of women leads to these kinds of broad, blanket messages, because women can't be trusted to really understand how much is too much.

it is sexist bullshit imo.

as it transpires it looks like I"m with you madamez too!

But some really don't how much is too much Soph, it dosen't make them stupid just uninformed.

I think it is a great idea. Alcohol is a drug (a legal drug, but a drug none the less). An adult body processes it like any other drug gets processed through your body and it can and does affect on a growing fetus. You shouldn't take any drugs or medication during the crucial first trimester and should avoid as much as possible throughout your pregnancy.

I've found the bit in her excellent book which should be compulsory reading imo 'Misconceptions'.

'...we are considered to dumb, with only the facts presented to us, to moderate our intake....You cannot have even half a glass of wine...because, though the sutdies on moderate alcohol intake show statistical insignificance, studies also show that pregnant hard-core alcoholics deliver compromised children. We can't be trusted with moderation. So drop that glass of white wine. Now.

...give the facts and left to draw sensible conslusions a pregnant woman would veer like the sense glutted harlot she really is into the slough of sugary desserts and the dark forest of wontonly emptied bottles of Baileys Irish Cream.

...the cultural sutext grew clearer and clearer, and it did not makde me comfortable:

YOUR BABY NEEDS TO BE PROTECTED FROM YOU.'

stigaloid....lets take this to it's logical conclusion.

no alcohol

no coffee

no overexertion

no underexertion

no overeating

only vitamin rich and healthy giving foods

basicaly, if you're pregnant, or even trying to have a baby, you can't be trusted to make sensible choices, so we are telling you the law according to us.

IT SUCKS and has deeply (I can't believe they are not obvious to everyone) misogynist implications.

should men not drink when trying to concieve? WHY is the advice not being couched in this way?

"You shouldn't take any drugs or medication during the crucial first trimester "

Now that's one I've never heard before.

I think we should give up food, too, just to be on the safe side.

Those of us who could well have ended up dead without hyperemesis medication (and many people believe that HG was how Charlotte Bronte died, by the way - it is not proven to have been consumption) would probably dispute the idea that drugs and medications are all bad.

Why do people take such umbrage at being told to stay off the booze for a few short months? Alcohol is a posion - it isn't lethal in small doses but can certainly be so in large amounts and it is still a toxin introduced into a person's body. Surely those having a baby would wish to protect their unborn child by not introducing a toxin into their system if it can be helped? Surely you would want to look after your health and your babies? It's not like it is forever - only a few short months.

My SIL husband has difficulty in producing sperm - he has been told to change his diet, what he wears and avoid excess heat - he has been doing so as it will give him the best chance to conceive. Is it sexist to be told not to wear tight clothes and avoid hot baths and change his diet? No.

Is it sexist to say - change your diet and avoid alcohol to a get the best chance of conceiving and having a healthy baby? - no.

It's just common sense.

I can't understand where all the resentment comes from?

Precisely Fiofio - most women do and most women avoid alcohol during pregnancy.

This seems to be a round-a-bout argument.

However, some women continue to smoke and drink and do drugs during their pregnancy and for them, if the government want to set guidelines to help, then surely that is a good thing?

there is no evidence that 1 or 2 units a week do anything at all.

so why is this advice being couched in these terms.

and why aren't YOU concerned at the way that pregnancy seems to entitle governments/organisations/anyone to have a say in what you do with your body?

your husband is getting advice based on his specific circumstances. it is not analagous.

and it is not a few short months. it is over a year at least if you are going to follow the guidelines during pregnancy and conception.

common sense given the evidence would suggest that having a small drink a couple of times a week during pregnancy is no problem at all. THINK about why they are introducing blanket ban guildelines.

??? If a governing body looks into ways to help the health of the population then that is a good thing? Surely things like the smoking ban take into consideration the overall well being of the populace and provides guidelines and laws to protect people. Why should i be concerned that a governing body suggests not drinking during pregnancy? It makes sense.

It isn't law - no one is going to arrest you if you have a drink - but they believe that it is healthier to avoid.

In the 1970's smoking was cool and acceptable and encouraged - now everyone knows the dangers of smoking. As times change and more is learnt about the harm of certain legal substances in our society, the guidelines around these change.

there is masses and masses of evidence that passive smoking is hugely damaging.

there is NO evidence that one or two units of alcohol a week do anything at all.

bewilderment doesn't make your argument stronger.

Sophable.

Sorry dalink but you are giving out very dangerous advice re diet while PG.

'Vitamin rich' is a dangerously misleading term, as some mothers cannot be trusted to realise how much Vitamin A they can safely ingest.Excess Vit A causes birth defects. Mother must thefore avoid all vit A containing products and have a capsule that has just the right amount of Vit A. Anything else will confuse their tiny little minds

yup.

NO PATE YOU BABY DEFORMERS DO YOU HEAR ME?

x

Fine. We can agree to disagree. I don't see the problem in the government guidelines and don't find it offensive in any way.

I think it would be a good idea to avoid anything else you can spread on bread as well as there is some confusion over what constitutes 'pate'.

stigaloid. don't you think that the fact that it is not based on evidence is worrying?