The government doctors advice has changed now it is NO alcohol in pregnancy ane when trying to conceive at all

[zippitippi]

.....

early alcohol can damage the egg and cause miscarriage and facial deformities, later it can cause a spectrum of brain damage and low birth weight

so the new advice is abstinence

this brings this country into line with eg the US

interestingly obstetricians are sticking with 1 to 2 units a week

times online

BTW Crunchie, here is the US the actuality if seen drinking while pg is really not so dire.

For one pg I was in Houston. For another I was in a small town in the state of Arkansas.

I had 1-2 drinks per week (after month 3) during each pg, many of them in public spaces. Not once - NOT ONCE - was I approached by a stranger or questioned by a friend or acquaintance. Perhaps I gave off some vibe or had extremely good luck or am the exception. However. Seems to me the people who most antogonize pg women in the US over this issue are not in the general public, but rather their own doctors. For legal reasons.

i had absolutely zero alcohol from deciding we'd try for a baby to finishing BF with No2. yes i love a glass of wine with a meal but this was no hardship.

but saying that i didn't have scans with my pregnancies (apart form an emergancy one with No2, (baby felt like a fish out of water)) and that's even with having Gest. Diabeties with second preg i told them no. both babies fine.

and then i let my baby's sleep on their fronts as they didn't settle on their backs/sides - they could lift their heads from birth and they were happier but i know this will raise eyebrows

the government can say what they want poeple will still do their own thing and parents have to decide, but IMHO alcohol is as bad as smoking when preg/BF

No-one should drink or smoke during pregnancy, if you do you are selfish. Simple.

wasn't as brave to put it like that kittylette - well done!

With this pg I turned 30 when I was 12 weeks, and asked my gyn (not, at that point, the disastrous placenta praevia/smear one) beforehand whether I could have a glass of champagne. His answer: 'Officially, no' - which made it perfectly clear that one wasn't going to hurt. In the end I had a quarter of a glass and didn't want any more. I also had a glass of wine at about 20 weeks. Otherwise, that's been it. With ds I abstained totally until about 26 weeks and then had one glass at a couple of special occasions a few weeks apart.

Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable with 1-2 units once or twice a week - most women may be fine on that but for me personally (I'm quite small and slight) it would feel like too much and as much as I like a glass of wine, I wouldn't want to take the risk - but one glass every 4 or 5 weeks (after the first 12 weeks) I don't see as a problem.

mli and kitty, I would certainly not equate having the odd drink in pg to having the odd cigarette. Cigarette smoke and alcohol work in entirely different ways and have entirely different sets of effects. I find smoking a great deal more noxious than alcohol and any smoking in pg abhorrent. (Must say I am one of those extremely annoying reformed smokers, having smoked for a couple of years in student days).

What makes me very indeed about this new advice is partly its extension to ttc, partly the implication (which I too pick up on) that women are likely to deceive themselves and/or others about how much they drink.

crunchie, IME the pg police extends to the motherhood police. I was at work (in my former job) once having a coffee - my ds (then about 5 months) was around, and I'd been bf him - and I overheard one of my students, ffs, saying 'she shouldn't be having coffee while bf'.

'You could have one binge episode at the wrong stage in pregnancy and cause FAS.'

What stage is that then, - and why can't we have access to this type of info.?

Those of you that don't want to take the 'risk', - what risk are you talking about - and based on what evidence?

The 'evidence' I personally go on is simply my feeling that having a drink every week would be too much for me. I don't presume to judge others.

i'm quite a small build and i can feel the effects of a glass of wine on me so what it would do to a developing baby who is fed directly from what is in your bloodstream i shudder to think, that's why i don't think it's right and i stopped totally. You wouldn't give a newborn or toddler a sip of your drink would you?

i don't think anyone should drink in pg but i would never be a pg police out loud.

alcohol also stays in the blood stream for quite a while doesn't it? it also affects you ability to drive and some would say the current limits are too high for that.

My extensive research at 5 weeks led me to feel very strongly that many government guidelines were patronising and 'catch-all'!

I did not find any significant risks associated with me drinking alcohol, eating pate, soft cheese, soft yolk, uncooked egg, cured meats etc. (some of the risks associated with these things become more significant at particular pregnancy stages).

It isn't that I am selfish, - I spent a lot of time investigating the evidence behind these guidelines - but I wanted to have a fairly relaxed attitude to parenting as I believe in the long-run it will benefit my child!

Our culture is putting so much pressure on parents to behave in a prescribed 'right' way, and raise their children thus, and our current government targets parents for many of the societal problems we face, rather than 'policy'!

It's convenient, it's cheap, but the effects are a bunch of guilt-ridden parents, restricted 'programmed' children and eventually rebelling teenagers!

Er, you can't have one binge and then cause FAS. That is just the sort of hysterical scare-mongering remark that is becoming so prevalent and it's just wrong. There is no single recorded case of such an eventuality, it is just a kneejerk remark unconnected to research, evidence or reality. Apart from anything else, it is thought by the majority of people in the field that there is a genetic component to FAS and research is still being done into this. Throughout known history, all pregnant women in the western world drank alcohol throughout their pregnancies because there was no clean running water and tea and coffee had not yet taken over as the default drink and there were not masses of children born with FAS.

Silly remarks like Kittylette's will become the norm thanks to the climate created by measures like the introduction of these ridiculous new guidelines and women who aren't as educated, confident and well-informed as some on this thread, will be horribly bullied and intimidated by nasty ignorant people who can use the excuse of pregancy to make a woman feel bad or ashamed.

How logical is it to say that if you didn't realise you were pregnant, it's OK? The first tremester is the most important in terms of the formation of the fetus, so the idea of giving up once you've found yourself pregnant at 10 weeks or something, is ridiculous - if the risk were so great, the damage would have been done by then.

I agree with everything Madamez, Rubberduck, MB and others say. If people can't see why feminism is relevant here, then they're not really very aware of feminist issues imo.

Some excellent posts, some dubious ones. Selfish for having one unit once or twice a week? That made me More selfish to make a comment like that imo. Imposing ones views on others is selfish. Berolina was careful to say that 1 or 2 units is too much for her, which is fair enough. Afterall, we are all different. Some women make a choice to eat soft cheese now and then, some women make a choice to have a drink now and then, some women put their babies to sleep on their front, some co-sleep with their babies, some formula feed their babies through choice rather than necessity. All choices made by a mother - because we are individual and it is our right as individuals to make parenting decisions for our own children. Imo advice should be used to inform our parenting techniques - not to dictate what we do.

here is an excellent article about this by minette marrin

my cousin was affected by his mother drinking throughout her pregnacy. so yes i do think she was selfish as his deformnaties could have been avoided. She didn't drink with her second pregnancy suprisingly.

i would also add it is those that are properly educated and researched and are not selfish that can give something up for a small amount of time when the body doesn't need alcohol at the best of times (i mean do you know what is in wine for instance).

alcohol affects the blood, end of.

i also think that all articfical sweetners, fizzy drinks and peservatives and non-essential medicine etc needs to be avoided in pregnancy, limit of sugar etc during pg and an increase in fruit and veg as so much development is going on. why have a child if you don't protect it from nasties from the moment (or before) you conceive? motherhood is a sacrifice not a right.

"motherhood is a sacrifice"?

Now THAT would make a great thread

Kittylette and Mylittleimps:

If each of you did do pg perfectly, then you do have every right to call others selfish.

I am assuming then that in addition to never drinking or smoking, you did both weight lifting and cardio at least 3x/week, never ate any desserts or anything laden with empty calories, and made sure to drink 1 oz water per pound of body weight and eat 10 varied fruits and vegs every day, in addition to taking folate and DHA supplements.

Mylittleimps, we crossed posts. Did you exercise?

"motherhood is a sacrifice not a right"

Gosh, you're full of fun aren't you?

marls001 - i'm sure this will make you and others laugh - despite being as good as possible i could not get my BP down (it's normal when not pregnant) and so had to do very gentle excerise only - lots of walking with our dog for instance, plus always a walk at lunch, but that's not why i tried to be good, i wnated to be try and do my best for my unborn baby, it just seemed the right thing to do.

i stress i would never be openly crictical to another pg woman, i just feel it's right to express my opinion on this thread becuase everyone's view is equally relevant

Mylittleimps, exercise - both kinds - IS the best for your unborn baby.

It decreases the risk of preterm birth (2000 study, Epidemiology). It makes you less likely to deliver by C-section (2000 study, Journal of Obstetric, Gynecologic and Neonatal Nursing). It helps you avoid gestational diabetes (March of Dimes) and will help with gd if you do incur it (1996 study in The Physician and Sportsmedicine).

Five years after their birth, the children of exercising mothers scored higher on intelligence tests and had less body fat than children of nonexercising mothers (1996, The Journal of Pediatrics, James F. Clapp III, M.D.).

(Dr. Clapp has completed more than 2 decades of research that show a positive correlation between weight-bearing exercise and pg.)

What I am trying to say is: No one does everything right - no one can. Not even you.

So why would you criticise other mothers - even on this thread?

I understand that you have an opinion about alcohol, but why "selfish"?

Why label others with "selfish" unless you can honestly say that you have never been so yourself?

Perhaps you can ...

I gave up alcohol when i was pregnant, i didn't have one drop! I also quit smoking and haven't smoked since plus i was careful and didn't eat the things i was told could put harm to the baby. My dd was born very healthy and has been very healthy since, i like to think that i had something to do with that.

I'm sure I read a study that showed that the children of sanctimonious mothers were more likely to suffer from health problems and do less well at school.

Mylittleimps you said your cousin damaged her baby by drinking alcohol whilst pregnant. I very much doubt she drank one or two units once or twice a week. I don't think any woman on here is suggesting we should drink liberally - most women are saying they will follow the old sensible but sufficiently restrictive guidelines because the goverment is not drawing on new research and because they are giving contradictory advice. If you don't want to drink during your pg that's great, but to to say that other women are acting irresponsibly without any evidence to back up your opinion is obviously going to get a reaction.