In England the McCanns would be arrested

[LostPuppy]

Off the bat, I of course hope with all my heart that Madeleine is returned safely

But her "parents" are a disgrace. They left Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie sleeping in the apartment ON THEIR OWN. They had taken turns to return from the restaurant to check on their children.

Now hang on! In this country that is illegal, for very good reason.

Even if they 'checked on them' every five minutes that's plenty of time for one of the kids to wake up and try to go to the toilet and crack it's head open slipping on the bathroom floor, or something equally disastrous. They'd never hear the screaming from a bloody restaurant down the road!

Obviously it's unlikely, but I just cant comprehend the mentality of leaving three children under 3 alone on their own, ever, let alone at night in a foreign country!

oh god.

i totally get it expat. i do.

but really. we do all fuck up.

we really really do.

and what on earth is the point. their lives are living hell. they are not going to find madeleine alive (imo) and it is a total abhorrent world that they inhabit forevermore.

what is the point of putting the boot in.

i know i do things that could put ds at risk. perhaps not of kidnapping but maybe of being injured/burnt/or actually maybe even snatched (he has been out of eyeshot and that is all it takes isn't it?)

anger at impotence. anger at the torture of what that little girl may be going through/might have gone through/will go through. anger at a world that is fucked. yes.

this thread is like the ones that look for her. it is about impotence. it is about impotence.

'there is only one person truly suffering and she is completely innocent '

given that she is probably dead i don't agree.

and frankly whatever her fate I"m absolutely flabberghasted that you as a parent (i'm assuming as you post on this site) can really believe that her parents and her siblings are not suffering. are you psychotic?

not much to add to that soph.

I'm off to bed.

dolally - There is a clause in the contract drawn up for the appeal fund that specifically states monies will be used to pay for the parents' legal fees.

I find that unpalatable.

well you just keep finding things unpalatable until something you do results in something happening to your child.

wow.

No I am not psychotic and yes I am a parent. I am a single parent - not through choice and yes I do go on holiday abroad and no I do not leave my child alone in a hotel room, apartment, villa, nada, never. If I can manage that and still have a social life I am sure that most 'normal' two parent families like the McCanns can do the same.

I am sure Madeleine's parents are suffering but why does that mean we cannot comment on their complete dereliction of duty? The thing that amazes me most is the number of people who have apparently done the same and see nothing wrong in what they have done. I even heard someone comment on the radio last week that children of Madeleine's age need their 'independence'. Not at 3 (perhaps now 4) they don't.

Having lived through being told that my child was likely to die I cannot imagine how I would feel at the thought of my child being dead because of my own stupidity. Of course I have sympathy with the McCanns but frankly I have more sympathy for Karen Grist.

You should all read a very interesting article written by a journalist who has been on two Mark Warner holidays - he consistently refers to the 'normal' safety procedures that we all normally put in place and how the Warner family holidays take all of that worry/care away ... I cannot believe that the parents are still being criticised nor can I countenance remarks concluding that Madeleine is dead ... how inhuman are these posters????

I see where you're coming from, soph. I do.

I don't know that I see it as putting the boot in, but that's maybe because despite having a memory like a sieve - gawd, I messed up my life so much in the past it affected my memory - I recall a post here not too long ago that go so pilloried, just for pointing out that they'd rue the day they left those kids alone.

It wasn't meant to be mean spirited, I don't think.

It just was an opinion.

I wish the world weren't such a place as it is.

It causes me some concern, sometimes, bringing up the girls here. They won't be as savvy as I was. Maybe that's not all bad, I can't say, because it is what it is now.

I think, sometimes, of the McCanns, how special they were, in a sense, being comfortable with such an arrangement. I think, 'Only in the UK, maybe?' I can't know that, of course.

I just find it hard to think about, because whenever I do, it's not Madeline's face I see. Those faces, they're all brown and black.

I could go into it here, I won't. Suffice it to say, I wasn't just married the once before DH.

melanie, i took exception to your comment that the only person suffering was madeleine. ill advised?

i get it expat.

no need to spell it out.

[huge sigh]

Melanieno

I too am a single parent. I never left my daughter at the age of 4 alone but then again I could not afford the type of safety that a Mark Warner holiday normally provided (and the thought of an adult dinner without kids would be very appealing). With hindsight we are all very lucky about what we would/would not do ...

Return Madeliene safely ...

sophable - I asked whether it should be considered acceptable for monies donated to a charity set up in this child's name to be used for the purpose of funding her parents' legal fees (presumably if they are prosectuted for Neglect or Manslaughter)?

Any act of negligence that causes harm to another person could be considered a mistake. I'm talking about the law and about the misappropriation of charitable funds. Or at least the potential for it.

I am sure the McCanns are suffering for their failure to protect their child but I will never understand why they chose to visit a MW resort and pay the associated premium that MW resorts demand and then completely fail to make use of the babysitting facilities available (although it has been reported they did use the daytime childrens clubs). Would I be too cynical if I queried why did they bring their children on holiday with them at all if that is true?

It is almost as if this whole event is so horrific that the McCanns as parents are above reproach. What about all the other abducted children? I heard an interview with Karen Grist last week. She had no help, no support, nothing. Instead the police accused her parents of killing her child. She was a 19 yr old single mother and 17 years later her child is still missing.

My job is one of the professional classes but I don't think that makes me a better parent. It is almost as if these parents jobs and social standing mean that they are without blame.

Soph, I've CAT'd you.

I'm sad, too.

I wish it didn't have to be like this.

Meanwhile, here in the UK, a pregnant 17-year-old has been murdered in her own home in an apparent 'honour killing'.

Gawd, I hope her mother is gone from this world and doesn't have to bear that.

I agree George11. Parenting is the hardest thing I have ever done and the only job I have had that I have had absolutely no training for. We have to make decisions every day for our children's safety and well being. It is never an easy job but part of me wonders if the McCanns are trying to show the world that they are the fantastic parents they thought they were. If they had left their 3 children alone whilst they went out for dinner for one night in their 2 week holiday I would have loads of sympathy. But it has been reported that they were coming to the end of their two week stay and they had done the same thing on other evenings. Not sure if it was every night as has been reported.

I too don't have the income to afford MW holidays but talking to friends who do (and who have similar age children) they have said there is no way they would leave their children alone and go out for dinner. MW is popular for its daytime childrens clubs and English trained and English speaking nannies. Maybe it is because I am a single mum but when I go on holiday I enjoy spending time with my child.

most things we do with or allow our children to do are a calculated risk. I have often been thoroughlly shit faced on holiday in charge of the children in a canvas tent. ALthough the children were with me at all times. even when not shit faced and camping, the children have to use the communal toilet blocks in the dark and probably did so aged 9 and up.

i always glibly said that i can get shitfaced on holiday becuase social services can't be called. but there is an element of truth in so much as sometimes we do on holiday things we wouldn't do at home.

i mean, what security does a tent have?

Probably that it's so thin you'd hear someone slitting it to get to your kids, even if thoroughly shit faced.

maybe. But i could so many times be on the cover of a national newspaper with my parental peers berating my actions.

The thing I dont understand is Mc Canns are doctors, they must know risks more than many other people.

thats a bit of a thing to say.

and we are humans we can make mistakes once or twice, but it's been told that they left their children asleep for quite many days.
I don't know, I dont like to judge anyone, I haven't been to such holiday, I don't know the circumstances there.

i think you have judged.

Can't be arsed to read all this - have read a bit and it seems to be going around and around.

All I can say is to the OP - there is a time and a place to express such sentiments and this is neither the time or the place.

Clearly its time to end this. I'm not going to be able to convince the rich Mark Warner brigade that it is safe to leave your children in another building while you go off eating and drinking.