In England the McCanns would be arrested

[LostPuppy]

Off the bat, I of course hope with all my heart that Madeleine is returned safely

But her "parents" are a disgrace. They left Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie sleeping in the apartment ON THEIR OWN. They had taken turns to return from the restaurant to check on their children.

Now hang on! In this country that is illegal, for very good reason.

Even if they 'checked on them' every five minutes that's plenty of time for one of the kids to wake up and try to go to the toilet and crack it's head open slipping on the bathroom floor, or something equally disastrous. They'd never hear the screaming from a bloody restaurant down the road!

Obviously it's unlikely, but I just cant comprehend the mentality of leaving three children under 3 alone on their own, ever, let alone at night in a foreign country!

There was a similar case though of a child being found after 58 days after an abduction

So whilst I am perectly open eyed as to the likely outcomes, its not beyond possibility

Bobbysmum - The case of the little girl killed by the dog in (i think Merseyside). The grandmother has not been charged with Murder. She is charged with Manslaughter because of gross neglect.
Nothing to do with the McCann though

yes his mother was on sky news the other day. he was with a paedophile though.

sorry, maybe unrealistic was not the right word.

And just to add, I once left my son in the car, whilst popping into Sainsburys for a pint of milk. So , please understand I DO KNOW that I am in no position to judge.

I am no shrink but I am hearing much self congratulatory cries of "I am a better parent than them and this would not have happened to me" . Bravo to you then.

I do hope that you all never make a mistake with your child and they grow up perfect. And if you make any mistakes I hope that those around you show more empathy and compassion than some some of the NMs.

Do you honestly think that the McCanns need your NM analysis and that they haven't regretted this and learned from this?

I think I would rather be tutted at by sanctimonious types for having my child out late asleep in her pushchair whilst we ate than ever even contemplate leaving her to her own devices, in fact this is what I have done every time or alternatively - eaten in the room.

I second that emotion@TD

I agree with Morningpaper, MN is being EXTREMELY sensitive, to the the parents, the search, the everything. Look at other chatrooms. Listen to RL converstions. Most are not nearly as sensitive as MN'snetters.

I'm pretty sure the Mccanns wont be aware of the 'mn analysis' at all. ever in fact. MN is great but it's not universally important to every parent.

Agreed TD

I have left my children in the car on numerous occasions whilst I've popped into shops etc.
It's only now that I realise how silly that is - I would never leave my handbag and purse on full view in the car so why leave a child? They are our most precious....

I think any holiday company that actively discourages children in their restaurants is obviously not a family orientated holiday company. I would not book such a place, we are all on holiday whats wrong with spending time together?

UCM, I certainly think that parenting has changed over the years and part of that change has been towards a more risk adverse approach. Almost every risk in childhood has to be eliminated wherever possible.

The stats on child abduction haven't changed significantly in that time. But other environmental things have, such as incidence of road traffic accidents, distance travelled to school etc. I suspect sexual abuse by those known to the family or by family has stayed about the same (but I don;t know that for sure).

As a child from about the age of 3 onwards, I played out doors for most of the day, returning home for mealtimes only. The older children in the community looked after the younger ones. Sometimes we played in each otehr;s gardens, sometimes in the park, sometimes we went a bit further afield with packed lunches! At 7 years old, I had piano lessons after school right on the other side of Inverness, which involved a bus ride and then a long walk. There was no question of me needing to be accompanied, although my father would pick me up after the lesson on his way home from work.

This was the life of a middle-class child while I was growing up. Everyone did it, no one questioned it!

Why things have changed so much, I really don't know!

Bobby's mum - interesting point, because all the hysteria on other threads seems predicated on the 'fact' that M has been abducted, when as far as I know??? this hasn't been proven yet?

It is discourteous to carry on like this whilst the parents are still looking for the child. Don't you think? It's a bit like me discussing the danger of smaoking at funeral of friend who died of lung cancer? Discourteous! Very Bad form! bad manners whether or not they are reading the website.

i guess people go abroad for the weather, i know thats why i go.

i think they couldn't use the baby listening service in the hotel because they had stopped doing it the week before. at least that is what i heard. anyway the baby listening service is exactly the same as what the couple were doing themself.

Well DB, I do hope that I have the sense to 'let go' as such when the time comes. Otherwise my children will have a bit of a boring childhood. Mine was very much like yours, only home for food really. The only thing that has changed IMO is that there are tons more cars on the road. There are no more abductors now than there were 30 years ago. This story would have made the 1pm news & the 10 pm news for about a week.

Sorry didn't read the bit about cars in your post.

There is no need for any great analysis. lessons are obvious. You are a nasty lot, many of you! horrible! yuck! insecure!

I have to say, when I first heard what had happened I was horrified that Madeleine's parents had gone out and left their 3 children HOWEVER I swiftly remembered how I thought that about people who left their children in cars at petrol stations whilst they paid for their petrol......when I had only one child I never did this and was disgusted (in a Daily Mail type way) that others did...
I now have 2 children and guess what? Yep, they are left in the car every time I visit the petrol station.

It is all too easy to judge, I can't even imagine what Madeleine's parents are going through.

There were definitely black armbands worn and two minutes silence for Jessica and Holly Wells at at least one major football game.

Bravo Quattrocentro and Expat and other very reasonable posters.

What they are going through is a complete tragedy and my heart goes out to them.

My first thought upon hearing they left their children to go out fo a meal was My God why would they do that its disgusting. I am not ashamed to admit that my thoughts on this have stayed the same.

I have never left DD home alone and do not intend to do so. Being on holiday, relaxed environment, brand of hotel is irrelevant to me. If Mark Warner hotels don't let under 12's eat in the evening and your kids are under 12 why would you book to go there in the first place. If anything I would imagine that this appeals to couples who don't want to be hassled by other peoples kids not people with families.

I am by no means a perfect parent and do hold my hands up and admit to not finding parenting the easiest thing in the world. Everyone and I honestly mean everyone I have spoken to in RL regarding this case has been on the same wavelength as me re leaving kids alone

I am relieved that this discussion has not been deleted by people who think differently than the OP everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Again I pray for Madeline to be found well and soon safe from harm and for her parents nightmare to be over.

MN

Message withdrawn

Me too BAF (as in ?would rather be tutted at by sanctimonious types for having my child out late asleep in pushchair whilst eating?etc?) for I have yet to find a hotel room, in the UK or abroad, that is actually lockable from the inside. All that I have come across are only locked from intrusion from the outside (as in you need a key to get in from the outside, but only the ability to turn the handle from the inside ? and lets face it, most almost 4 if not 3 year olds are amazingly adept at foiling the most challenging of ?child proof? things).
I have never taken DS (almost 5) on holiday alone. I make sure there is someone else ? before the separation, partner, or since, aunt, uncle or grandparent - around to take turns with the childcare bit?..or failing that, on the odd occasion let my DS sleep in the buggy for an hour or so.