In England the McCanns would be arrested

[LostPuppy]

Off the bat, I of course hope with all my heart that Madeleine is returned safely

But her "parents" are a disgrace. They left Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie sleeping in the apartment ON THEIR OWN. They had taken turns to return from the restaurant to check on their children.

Now hang on! In this country that is illegal, for very good reason.

Even if they 'checked on them' every five minutes that's plenty of time for one of the kids to wake up and try to go to the toilet and crack it's head open slipping on the bathroom floor, or something equally disastrous. They'd never hear the screaming from a bloody restaurant down the road!

Obviously it's unlikely, but I just cant comprehend the mentality of leaving three children under 3 alone on their own, ever, let alone at night in a foreign country!

I wonder if sales of Baby Monitors have soared this month?

UCM, I think you have a point.

Bobbysmum you have no foundation for your beliefs whatsoever.

after reading the Op only i would like to say that LostPuppy has her facts ver wrong indeed.
It is not illegal to leave teh children alone, and no they would not have been arrested. When Madeliene was returned then yes SS would haev ac onversation about the safety implications but i would imagine this would have been made self evedent.

Whilst i do not agree with their actions on that night i really do not believe spouting news of the world type inflamatory posts is very intelligent.

some of you are showing how bitter and cold hearted you are. Really! The parents ARGUABLY made a mistake/are unlucky in a not dissimiliar situation to that of many many parents. Child is abducted and your focus is on arresting the parents.

No compassion for their disproportionate loss?! Look deep into your souls and ask what makes you so self righteous to inflict such hard judgement on people who will suffer for the rest of their lives. Why such venom? Are some of us jealous of the public support shown. If so, then we are a complex, deeply insecure lot.

PS Atleast all my mates at the Test Match today were sympathetic and planning to logon to the website to show some support.

lots of love

actually no, the police believe she was abducted but there's a lot of talk that there was no forced entry, despite the parents claiming the shutters had been forced.

the portuguese police say very little though don't they so it's impossible to know what they really do/don't know.

I seriously doubt she's still alive though tbh.

Have read quite a bit, although not all of the thread, becasue it is very lomg.
The calls for it ro be deleted are silly. The OP was phrased insensitively, but the truth is this conversation is going on all over the world.
Last week, we sat on a First Choice coach from Ibiza aiprort, to our resort. This very issue was being discussed, between 6 sets of parents who had only just met.

And the concluding remark, was " they should have used the babysitting service, I won't be letting my child out of my sight this week". To which the unamimous rteply was "too right".

This is one of the discussions that is going on worldwide. To deny it and say , what is this helping, it doesn't sit well with me from a MN view, is ridiculous.

It needs to be discusssed.

ToughDaddy - I agree with you. The attitudes of some people on this thread ar utterly shameful.

agree Oblomov

UCM, in part that is true but not totally.

In Inverness when I was about 8yo (so more than 30 years ago) a child went missing. It was huge news. In teh local papers every day and on the tv news. It was all anyone spoke about for weeks.

Every weekend while she was missing there were enormous search parties organised with thousands of people joining in. I went to one of them and we searched in some local wood land for her.

In the end she was found behind the bath panel of a house of a man known to the family which had been searched 3 times previously. Eventually the smell gave it away

Child abduction is so very very rare, that the almost always sparks off enormous media coverage. This has always been the case, but is probably magnified in the era of 24 hour news and the internet!

Wannabe - "I seriously doubt she's still alive though tbh"
I doubted that they would find her, within the first few days. Call me a pessimist, I just had this terrible feeling, and felt that people were being unrealistic.

Just recently back from holiday in Spain with our 2 yr old and 3 yr old.
We used a babysitter (stranger) for 1 night only and yes we were a little more anxious than usual.
What difference is there though between hiring someone abroad and someone in your own hometown?
You just have to assess the risks, check out the babysitting service you are using etc.

I wonder how many of us will be using the baby listening services of hotels where staff routinely have room access and may not be sufficiently vetted. Surely that is a risk? But we take a calculated risk as parents don't we?

I wonder how many of us will be using the baby listening services of hotels where staff routinely have room access and may not be sufficiently vetted. Surely that is a risk? But we take a calculated risk as parents don't we?

I agree toughdaddy.

anyone who feels they "got what they deserve" should ask themselves if their child has ever been out of their sight, if they have ever ran behind a bush or been in the garden whilst the parent went to the loo etc.

by all means have a discussion over whether you will be holding your child that little bit tighter but how dare any of us condemn a family for falling prey to a very disturbed person.

This is really CRAP but I don't think I could even bring myself to use baby listening services now

Rationally, I know that my children are more likely to be struck by lightening but in my guilty-parent-conscience I am now more worried about Unnamed Terrors happening if I take those kinds of risks which are in my interest

Siestas will be the way forward

Well, yes, the statistics overwhelmingly suggest that if a missing child isn't found in the first day or two, the news probably isn't good. But I don't think people are being 'unrealistic', Oblomov. If that was your child, you may well be holding out hope and in denial about the reality. None of us know what this kind of situation does to you as a parent. I think mainly people are just trying to show support and solidarity to the parents. What else are we supposed to do?

God I don't think anyone has said "got what they deserve"

We were away at the time she went missing, and a lot of people there (a UK campsite) wouldn't have known due to it being a campsite and no TV's. Loads of epoepl let their kids out of their site, we even had one cycle into the side of our car- had we not been stuck in a traffic jam (and the kids was clearly oblivious of the road) he'd ahev been dead under the wheels .

So I think responses to 'I'm not letting the kids out of my sight' may have been met with less vigour before the madeleine scenario.

Message withdrawn

Exactly@peachy

great post toughdaddy. What gives anybody the right to judge the parents.

Oblomov not sure whether it's a case of being unrealistic or just optimistic/hopeful. I guess as a parent you never give up hope until there is a conclusion iyswim. what struck me was the talk from some on here, about Madeleine having been abducted by a desperate childless couple, or to be given to a desperate childless couple, not even wanting to contemplate anything else and telling other posters not to dare post anything else. Reality is that abduction to be sold for adoption was ruled out pretty early because Madeleine is too old, children sold into adoption are generally under two, as there is more chance of them bonding well with their new parents etc and not remembering their ordeal.

Wherever Madeleine is, it's not a nice place, and I do imagine the parents are well aware of that.

DB, (Love the name, again), would you say that as the whole child safety thing is so 'magnified' now, this is why most parents are too scared to let their kids out of their sights. I haven't faced this yet as mine are very young. I think that knowing what we all know, and couldn't possibly not know because of 'meedja prevalence', Mums are just never going to let go.

This thread is mainly a discussion about acceptable risk

I don't see what is wrong with that

Believe me, if you've read other talkboards on the web you will see that Mumsnet is incredibly generous and understanding towards the McCanns