In England the McCanns would be arrested

[LostPuppy]

Off the bat, I of course hope with all my heart that Madeleine is returned safely

But her "parents" are a disgrace. They left Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie sleeping in the apartment ON THEIR OWN. They had taken turns to return from the restaurant to check on their children.

Now hang on! In this country that is illegal, for very good reason.

Even if they 'checked on them' every five minutes that's plenty of time for one of the kids to wake up and try to go to the toilet and crack it's head open slipping on the bathroom floor, or something equally disastrous. They'd never hear the screaming from a bloody restaurant down the road!

Obviously it's unlikely, but I just cant comprehend the mentality of leaving three children under 3 alone on their own, ever, let alone at night in a foreign country!

Hulababy,

On paper I dont think I would use a baby listening service or indeed make the decision the McCanns made, however were I in the resort and saw how things worked and what other parents were doing and there was that 'holiday atmosphere', relaxed vibe about the place I may well have changed my mind.

Indeed, I perhaps would have preferred to check my children myself rather than use a baby listening service as I would be able to check as often as I liked and actually go into the room.

Again, the location of the restaurant is irrelevant. A resort like this 'feels' like a very safe place. There will have been apartments nearer and further away.

Baby listening services are for babies who are in their cots.

Not for toddlers who are sleeping in beds.

Though I agree that a baby listening service would not have prevented the abduction.

Endless, endless, endless.

Yep, its made us all think. Hands up - I've done similar things - left them in a hotel room and gone down to foyer for a drink. I'm not sure I'd be doing it again. But I don't think I'm a terrible parent either - 80% of the time, I'm an okay parent, 10% brill, 10% crapolla. They were unlucky, very very unlucky.

There is no aspect of this the McCanns won't have thought of themselves and cursed themselves for - God Bless them.

Prison?? That would really achieve a lot wouldn't it?

Empathy, sympathy, prayers and hopes. Thats whats needed. Discuss all you like, but don't for Gods sake point the finger.

Most people I have spoken to in RL come up with the OP at some point. Think its only on mumsnet that people aren't actually saying it.

(by the way I don't agree that they are a disgrace - how could I, I have done something similar!)

enid have mailed yo

Love Angel they are called McCann NOT McGann

Well, I'm all for family time and all that, but at night, when the children are asleep is not family time.

We went to a similar style resort when ours were smaller, but fortunately ours will sleep anywhere so we took them out to dinner with us and they fell asleep in their pushchairs when they'd had enough to eat and we got to stay out and talk to other grown ups.

Is it family time to stay in your room with your sleeping children ?

Why does everyone rush to judge? Or rush to accuse others of judging?

Don't we all want to know where the boundaries are? Both legally and what parental "custom and practice" is?

And who on earth would suggest putting the McCanns in prison? Not me. Not a lot would be achieved by that.

Can anyone answer my question about how baby listening works? Are the children locked in the room?

You may be interested to read this from my friend's local US based newspaper:-

"Culture clashes have emerged as a theme in child dramas in the past.

In 1997, a toddler was left in a stroller outside a New York City restaurant while her mother dined and drank inside, prompting diners to phone police and complain.

After being arrested for neglect, the mother maintained the practice was common in her native Denmark and sued the city for false arrest. The charges were dropped and she was awarded $66,401.

Six years later, a Swiss father was arrested on charges of child endangerment after a maid discovered his 2-month-old in the family's Waldorf-Astoria hotel room while he and his wife were out to lunch.

"We are nice people and good parents. It's just a matter of a different culture," the wife told The New York Post, calling it a simple mistake. Here, too, charges were eventually dismissed.

Sharman Stein, director of communications at New York City's Administration for Children's Services, said her agency would definitely conduct an investigation if they received a call that children as young as 4 were left unsupervised".

Quartro - the OP mentioned 'illegal' and 'arrested' hence the 'prison'ref. Not accusing you.

puddle, I imagine most hotels/ apartments have to have a yale type lock due to fire safety. The sort where you can out of the room from the inside but need a key to get in from outside.

I think we are obsessed in this country with 'me time' at any cost even when we have young children.What is wrong with taking them with you to dinner It is a holiday and in Europe very common with all ages.Obsession with routine etc is ridiculous They grow up so quickly and you can have as many holidays as you like

i agree with OP

Also, if the McCanns were unemployed, beer drinking people instead of the affluent family they are we would all be saying what a disgrace it was that they left their children alone why they went out.

WHEN they went out

We certainly would Huff Puff, but that just shows up our class prejudice, not much else.

yes agree huffpuff

unfortunately this csae shows just how powerful the tabloid press are in this country

they say, we pay

as it were

so because they are affluent people we think its ok for them to leave 3 children under 5 alone while they go out?

makes me sick - yes its a tragedy and i hope to God that she comes back safely BUT its gone into overload. Yellow ribbons? a Madelaine day? Erm...............

The tabloid press and the Al Quaeda mumsnetters who seem to think that freedom of speech should be repressed ...

dont agree that they should be put in prison however

lemonstratree - yes, thanks, thats veen pointed out to me.

Quattro:

"Don't we all want to know where the boundaries are? Both legally and what parental "custom and practice" is? :

Is there such thing as one uniform boundary? One way of parenting that is right? An exact ruling on when and for how long and uncer what circumstances wecna leave our children unattended? Can we ever come to any kind of consensus on this matter? I would argue not.

Al Quaeda?

Quattro, pour yourself a glass of wine, mate, come on!

You can lock the kids in for Babylistening afaik , just as you might when you are in or out yourselves. Even most door to door services would n't enter your room , just notify you of noise. My understanding is that no such service exists at the MW Ocean Club due the extent of the complex. They have a drop off night creche instead but has I wonder if it was at capacity (bearing in mind the number of similar aged children with the McCann family) and also the logistics of carting 3 small sleepy children some distance back to the apartment had they used it.