In England the McCanns would be arrested

[LostPuppy]

Off the bat, I of course hope with all my heart that Madeleine is returned safely

But her "parents" are a disgrace. They left Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie sleeping in the apartment ON THEIR OWN. They had taken turns to return from the restaurant to check on their children.

Now hang on! In this country that is illegal, for very good reason.

Even if they 'checked on them' every five minutes that's plenty of time for one of the kids to wake up and try to go to the toilet and crack it's head open slipping on the bathroom floor, or something equally disastrous. They'd never hear the screaming from a bloody restaurant down the road!

Obviously it's unlikely, but I just cant comprehend the mentality of leaving three children under 3 alone on their own, ever, let alone at night in a foreign country!

But the McCanns are both well educated, responsible people. They are both doctors. I imagine being a consultant cardiologist calls for very good judgement, attention to detail and the need for making risk assessments all the time.

Why assume that they just through caution to the winds all of a sudden???

and for the final time, I apologise for my typos. My typing is sh!te.

They have 3 children under 4 - that is pretty full on. I think it is understandable that they wanted to have a quiet drink and meal to relax at the end of the day. Time with DH is important to family life too.

They were unlucky - this is extremely rare. Everytime you take your children on a car journey or cross a road you take a risk.

I would have done what they did (obviously not know). I think peoples comments on this thread are horrid and judgemental.

Have you never made mistakes?

If some lunatic wants to abduct a child he will find a way. He is the criminal not the parents.

LoveAngel

I agree with you that everyone has different boundaries. But there is one fairly clear legal boundary.

al quaeda

did you want to offend everyone ??

Was the door unlocked? I didn't know that.

Still don't think they are a disgrace. And it isn't illegal to leave kids unattended per se.

So Connie

If you are a middle-class professional, you are incapable of mistakes? Erm ...

You have interpreted the statute in your own way, Quattro. Clearly, it is open to different interpretations.

I agree that whoever took her is the criminal but they did make it so easy leaving three such small children alone.I am sure they are going over and over this in their minds as you do.Looking at the maps it does look like they were quite far away from the apartment but if it was just 30 yds then that is close.

Al Quaeda reference was to the mumsnetters who think that they have a god-given right to tell people what they can discuss, and then swear and hurl abuse at them if they don't shut up immediately ...

Fair enough, I thought

What is your point, Quattro? Let's be honest, here.

Do you really want a debate? Or do you want to say - in the nicest possible way, of course - that the McCanns have broken the law, neglected their child and have nobody to blame but themselves? Spit it out.

'An exact ruling on when and for how long and uncer what circumstances wecna leave our children unattended? Can we ever come to any kind of consensus on this matter? I would argue not'

And I would agree.

what would the age be? there's seven year olds here who go to the shop; ds1 isn't able to yet, he's not responsible enough. With his SN we'll be aiming for maybe 11 - 12.

DS3 probably will never be able to go far alone.

All kids are different. And there's also a huge (in th real world) difference between a locked hotel room and 'left alone' generally, especially as in the post that mentioned buggy outside a shop.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that

Freedom of speech is a straightforward enough principle, Quattro. You have the right to say what you think. And others have the right to say that's complete and utter boolox.

so if it was made illegal would that change your viewpoint?

No, I'm not saying what they did wasn't a mistake in hindsight. What I am saying is you need to take into account that they are well educated people and doctors so you would imagine them both to have good judgment of situations and take that into account when judging their actions.

Al Queda is hardly appropriate, as far as I know there's not yet been any bombings or assasinations on these threads.
you can of ocurse discuss as you wish 9within MN regs) but that doesn't prevent one from excercising decency and consideration

wannabe - what exactly would /could be made illegal here?

'leaving your child unattended for any amount of time...ever'??

Its such a grey area, and again, so much down to each parent's judgement.

AAARGH again, ground hog day

LoveAngel

I quote again from the AlphaMummy piece

"Leaving children alone in this manner is not desirable, but parents have to balance the demands of life and will probably have to consider such issues regularly.

A parent needs to ensure that children are safe if they are left alone. Leaving them for a short while, asleep, in a locked room with regular checks is acceptable. Leaving them for two hours, or with unlocked doors, is not."

I think the issue is actually not subject to a great deal of interpretation legally. So yes, I think they did break the law.

What I am more interested in is the culture of acceptability - about how laissez faire we are with regard to childcare issues. Would we intervene? I guess most of us wouldn't. Does that make us culpable too? Well I kind of think it does.

My interest is in childcare and in debating a childcare issue. Not in villifying the McCanns.

possibly, but let's say the law was changed to say that it was illegal to:

leave your child unattended where you are in a different building to that child, ie to pop to the shop/the neighbour's.
leave a child unattended in a car.
leave a child unattended in a place where that child has access to public place ie in a hotelroom.

I have seen people refer to an "acceptable risk" when discussing whether the children should have been left alone in the room. I really don't think there is such a thing as acceptable risk where tiny children are concerned. If a risk is preventable, don't take it. It is our job as parents to protect them at all costs.

If they broke the law, surely they deserve to be punished?

Make your mind up, Quattro. The words 'passive' and 'aggressive' spring to mind.

I'm bowing out for the time being.

My son is 10. At this precise moment he is in the park round the corner with his mates on his bike. So he is unattended.

Yes he's older and yes the situation is different but to suggest that all children left unattended in all circs should be illegal would mean I am acting now illegally.

And I can't see how that would be reasonable.

Hey LoveAngel

Don't you think they have been punished enough? Out of all proportion to the original crime?

Arguing that we should all be able to learn from their truly horrible experience is not the same as wanting to villify them.

There is an interesting piece on parents who kill their children (mercy killings) in today's times. Those parents broke the law, but who on earth would want to jail them for it?