Alfie Evans 7

[StayingAtTamaras]

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I'm hugely uncomfortable that Alfie's name and image has been plastered all over the internet. He has had no privacy or dignity in any of this, and I'm firmly in the camp of believing that the children in these cases deserve complete anonymity. Without a face to the campaign, would AA have as many members as they do? And we need exclusion zones around hospitals. I did agree with the debate on This Morning that said about the more cases like this that come along, the better we will learn to deal with them.

The problem with exclusion zones was pointed out on another thread, the doctors strikes wouldn’t have been able to take place. So your back to agreeing the wrong (or right) kind of protest as well as the wrong (or right) kind of parental rights

@GherkinSnatch I'm a bit ambivalent over the legal aid issue, but completely agree with you that anonymity in such cases might be wise

The challenge, of course, would be in keeping that anonymity in place

Yes anonymity should be made law. It's common for minors to have this.
I've felt the same over the years with high profile criminal cases involving minors as the perpetrators.

This is the thing isn’t it, legal aid wouldn’t help in this case as they went through so many legal teams. If I remember rightly cg’s dad self represented???
Anonymity wouldn’t work in this case either.

I do think the government need to recognise how disenfranchised some people are, the blind belief has come from people believing the conspiracy’s could happen. That trust has gone and it’s a dangerous place. We should always question, but there should be trust and respect on both sides

Cake i agree with you about the blind belief that doctors, police, lawyers etc are perfect has gone - I only have to look at the difference between the way my grandmothers worshipped her doctor and I questionned mine to notice!
However, I also think that the younger generation doesn't know how to be ill anymore. When I was younger (i'm not quite 50!) having chickenpox or mumps or flu as a child was just one of those things - you were very poorly but got better over a couple of weeks. Nowadays, a large proportion of the population has (generally) much better day to day health due to any number of reasons that we, as a nation, expect any illness to be 'cured' quickly. Whether its a cold, flu or deadly illnesses such as cancer and it seems to be that there is now a rise in 'new' illnesses such as Alfie's but everyone expects the instant cure for these too. And this isn't confined to any segment of society

There seems to be a lot of reliance around Twitter on this Polish doctor who has turned up saying Alfie is not terminal. Interestingly all the reports are in terms that she"claims" to have examined Alfie, which seems to indicate that the reporters are sceptical.

It seems pretty clear she hasn't examined Alfie, or if she has her report was deemed useless by TE for the purposes of the original court case as it's not mentioned in any judgment. If it existed, clearly the courts would have had to deal quite extensively with such a significant piece of evidence.

Maybe something needs putting in place about legal aid but you choose barrister (and you have to stay with them only!)
That you have a right to seek second opinion of a dr of your choice but only one etc.

I'm not suggesting denying people the chance to challenge what is said but rather that when a decision is made and the evidence presented it can't be challenged by various different people who all have their own agendas.

Thank you @TheShapeOfYou . I'm feeling particularly emotional as I've just been re-reading the eulogy I wrote for her funeral as it came up on FB "On this Day" (with friends and family spread around the world, I'd posted it there after the funeral for those who couldn't make it).

I posted yesterday about how we chose to stop bullying her to eat: she didn't want to, so why were we making her? Her body was gradually shutting down - all we were doing was sustaining it to slow the process. We didn't officially call it the Liverpool Care Pathway but that's what she was on. (personally I never had a problem with the principle of the LCP: it got a bad reputation from those occasions when it was implemented badly and especially when it was done without consultation with the nearest and dearest).

I'm glad my last memory with her is of massaging luxury moisturiser into her hands and arms (I learnt my love of luxury skin care and pampering from my mum ) rather than nagging her to eat some grapes or a spoonful of yoghurt.

Blobby hospitals expect us to be better quicker too. You only need to look at midwifery to see how much has changed. When I trained as a general nurse you were in hospital for 10 days after a section now you're in and out in 3. Cataract operations you had to lie flat for 2 weeks now it's done as a daycase.

Bornlazy thats a good point - hadnt thought of it from both sides to be honest.

Gno - it's just been in the news, seems very strange, in fact I'm sure it's making people quite uncomfortable, there sat in a car on the grass outside the hospital, in uniforms (like detectives) sky news have just covered it, who knows why, they said it's a secret when asked by the sky news reporter. Said it was the "3rd option" for Alfie Evans. All very strange.

Good evening nothing much to add to this thread, just lurking really.
Couple of things
I ended up doing a radio interview, about 12 months after my dear brother died, about organ donation, Jimmy's at Leeds where trying to raise the profile, I was paired with a girl who had a liver transplant. interestingly they had took listeners questions and views before hand. Everyone only had positive questions and views for the girl, the tranplantee, but over 50% of the views and a large number of question to me where negative many on similar lines to the AA, that was 1992, and before SM/FB.
I clearly remember the presenter from the BBC saying to me, how could you cope with knowing you where letting the doctors, who failed to save your brother, butcher him for his organs, to save someone else. FFS
I replied they didn't butcher him, they operated on him with a high skilled surgical team, and when we buried him you couldn't even tell where they had operated and sewn him up. The medical staff treat him like royalty.
I think people hate death, and most in the media talk from places of ignorance and either give people a free ride not to upset them or spout crap about things they should have researched.
it was an eye opener, the organ surgical team leader with me on the day was truly horrified, I really couldn't of care less, I said to her, that's nothing to losing Phil, I will survive.

My second point is this, do you think extreme religious views play a large part I believe the Gards and Evans have had the Pope, and CLC and American pastors, plus Polish/German Catholics involved. I was think last night as I tried to sleep, when I was a kid, it wasn't court cases trying to keep people alive in the courts, but the opposite, it was doctors trying to get the courts to overrule parents who didn't want treatment of their children, mainly Jehovah's Witnesses, who where against blood transfusions or cancer treatment
So have we now come full circle.

Sorry to derail. Once again to anyone who's lost a loved one, look after yourselves. Plus of course I hope Alfie and his parents are getting peacefully time to gether, and all staff at AH are be treated kindly.

user1471450935 you are a lovely man, and your posts have been such a major contribution. Thank you.

A friend who works at AH has had a copy of her Facebook made by an AA member and they've been trying to add all of her Facebook friends.

There's some proper fucking weapons in that group.

Morningcuppa, I've read that too, it's on the daily star site I think.

I agree with yolofish user1471 you are so dignified in your descriptions of a time that have obviously had a profound lifelong affect on both you and your family. Thank you for continuing to post, everything must have been brought back to the forefront of your mind again - although I am sure it is never far away. These threads and the whole issue around little Alfie has certainly made me re-visit memories of our relative who was taken off life support and various other traumatic medical situations along the way. It is hard.

Morningcuppa who are on the grass? The Polish contingency?

whywhywhy that is unbelievably awful

Have you seen this?

news.sky.com/video/polish-groups-secret-plan-to-protect-alfie-11349152

@Rhodiolia How ridiculous!

Lots of Polish people marching about in Hull in the pissing rain this evening. Saw a bit of it on live feed from Hull Daily Mail Facebook. When asked what they were hoping to achieve their 'spokesperson' said something along the lines of " we want him to live and I wouldn't be as calm as them if it were my child, no way'. Then it cut off.

So now there's a pair from a "Polish security company" run by some ex politician hanging around outside AH. On the Daily Star's video their guy said they have a "third way" to help Alfie but that it's "a secret" and that his boss is on the way over to do some big reveal

That'll help ...

This will definitely encourage the courts and AH to want to allow Alfie home! Not.

That Sky interview! The world has gone mad.