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Alfie Evans 6

999 replies

CamomileTeaShotofVodka · 26/04/2018 01:49

Following on from the last thread. If there's one already please do delete this one.

Remember not to speculate or make negative comments about the family or discussions will be stopped.

Thoughts are with Alfie tonight Star

Such an important and sensitive topic.

OP posts:
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8
nolongersurprised · 26/04/2018 11:30

Which would need reintubation and ventilation.

Mightymucks · 26/04/2018 11:30

I don't think the carefully managed release of information AH is allowed to disclose

But it has relaxed patient confidentiality which is what I said. And if there were issues with violence or threats from the family it would have come up in court because it would have been highly relevant.

Mightymucks · 26/04/2018 11:31

Oh, also turned out afterwards there was damage to my back so I was right.

TheDrinksAreOnMe · 26/04/2018 11:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

fenneltea · 26/04/2018 11:31

I think ethically AH would only do a scan if it was in Alfie's interests, as it is proven that he has little brain left anyway then I don't think it would be deemed of any benefit to Alfie, only to proving a point, which would be the wtrong reason. Even then I think the results would be denied, or cries of a cover up would be made, or that the results didn't matter because Alfie was doing fine. :(

MynameisJune · 26/04/2018 11:32

@nolonger yes I’m well aware that the main reason is probly further deterioration of his brain but I’m avoiding speculation as I’d rather the thread wasn’t pulled.

@dont Alfie has no higher consciousness left, he can’t feel fear. Whether he responds to noise is subjective.

The pertinent question is whether he could deal with sedation without being on a vent. Last week he didn’t have his life support withdrawn.

UtterlyDesperate · 26/04/2018 11:32

@Marmitesoldiers Flowers

taffett · 26/04/2018 11:33

I just want to say
Thanks to everyone that has had to go through something like this, I'm amazed by your strength.
Thanks to those of you from Liverpool who have felt the need to defend your city, please know the majority of people know this is nothing to do with you or your city and that not everyone in Liverpool agrees with it.
Thanks to the NHS staff who are on the front line with this, who are being questioned and called murderers despite only trying to do their best by this little boy and his family. They really all do a fantastic job.
And finally, Thanks to Alfie Evans and his family. Whilst I don't agree with the way they have necessarily gone about things, there is no denying they truly believe they are doing the right thing. I hope Alfie finds peace and his family have a good support network after this is finished.

BoreOfWhabylon · 26/04/2018 11:33

Bluelady I think any tests that can be given should be. Part of the problem is the perception that AH isn't doing anything. If those tests can be made, that perception can be corrected. Something's got to give here or the endless court hearings and acrimony will just carry on until Alfie dies and then I fear things will kick off in a big way.

I agree. Anything practicable that may help the parents come to term with Alfie's condition and prognosis can only be a good thing. I would have thought that the fact that Alfie is no longer ventilated would make it easier to perform an MRI.

PinkSkyAtNightAngelDelight · 26/04/2018 11:33

Mouth to mouth isn’t as effective as using equipment. For one reason the co2 you’re blowing back in to someone’s mouth.

Can we please please stop comparing Alfie to Aysha King! It’s like comparing eggs to bananas. Just stop.

MynameisJune · 26/04/2018 11:34

*probably

SeaEagleFeather · 26/04/2018 11:34

But if i had already come across authorities and been affected badly by them, e.g benefits cuts, police issues, social services involvement, school issues, had their own issues with hospitals or doctors. I could believe what was written without doing my own research, I could believe there is a conspiracy I wouldn't question its wrong, because they were wrong about me

I hadn't thought about it like that. Put like that you can see where the germ of mistrust and disbelief came from, before it sprouted into the deluded mob mentality of AA.

PinkSkyAtNightAngelDelight · 26/04/2018 11:35

They won’t do an mri unless there is a clinical need.

crunchymint · 26/04/2018 11:35

Alfie has been on life support for over a year. His condition will have been explained many times and the results of tests shared with the parents. The problem is that his parents do not trust the Drs and so do not believe them. I am not sure at this point that anything can change that.

GrumbleBumble · 26/04/2018 11:37

nolonger or a fear that if he doesn't recover from GA they will be sued for murder?
boreof as I understand there have been numerous and prolonged attempts at mediation in this case - a figure of over 100 meetings has been quoted.

Oowatchasay · 26/04/2018 11:38

When this story first surfaced I thought Ah were right and of course Alfie should be allowed to die. However, as time has gone on it has made me think about our current health care system. A German doctor was on the radio yesterday saying a child such as Alfie would have been sent home long ago and placed on a ventilator at home and implied withdrawing treatment just wouldn't be an option. It has raised important questions about what constitutes life and who gets to decided who lives and why. Given we don't allow euthanasia, why are we in the position of doctors deciding someone's doesn't live? I can't say I have an answer, but I am just questioning what I would previously have accepted.

Whilst I agree with what you are saying, and also think he should be allowed home, they cannot allow him home because they will not take him home, they will fly him to Italy and the court does not believe it is in Alfie's best interests to do so.

LuluJakey1 · 26/04/2018 11:38

I am one of the people who thinks there should be no thread about this at this time.
Like most people, I am finding this whole truly tragic story horrible to watch and impossible not to watch. I have thoughts about many members of AA and their behaviours and motivations which I have expressed last week. I have very mixed feelings about the behaviours of TE and KJ.
I am confused by my vacillating feelings about the outcomes of the various appeals. I wonder what I would do if this was DS or DD. I find myself reading everything about the case. I think the judgements are clear, compassionate and humane and when I read them and the medical evidence I completely agree. Then I see the photos and videos of Alfie and can not help but wonder and think that at least there must be somewhere to move him to - even a place in the hospital that is more private and unhospital like, one of the 'flats' or rooms some hospitals apparently have for parents?

I know I will be flamed for saying this but I see many similarities between these threads and AA. The difference is generally in the more educated language and ideas expressed more coherently here. But both have:
Admin who are struggling to manage the posters who keep breaking the guidelines
Admin who are regularly under attack for their actions
Admin who regularly and clearly ask for particular guidelines to be followed and state what the consequences will be if they are not
Posters who ignore what admin are asking for and then complain when the consequences happen
Posters who are critical of the parents (MN) or the hospital (AA)
Posters whose language is inflammatory or abusive
Posters who re-post unhelpful comments which the effect of is to emphasise a particular slant/view
Posters who state things that are not true
Posters who make unhelpful/uneducated suggestions
Posters who speculate
Posters who ask questions which no one except a medic who knows Alfie's current situation very well can answer
Posters who dramatise
And amidst it all:
Posters who have suffered their own similar, heart breaking trauma who are having to re-live every second of it again
Posters who write sensible, well-balanced, humane, compassionate, informative comments

There are no winners here. It is tragic for Alfie and his family. It has raised questions about social media and its use as a means of whipping up anti-authoritarian action, about the quite extreme religious-political agenda and how they use these cases for their own agendas and use very vulnerable parents, about overall reporting of such tragic and emotive cases by the Press and tv, about how we deal legally with these cases, about the pressure on hospital staff in such cases and much bigger questions about social issues in this country.

Alfie will never be forgotten- that is for sure.

Given all of that and the fact that even this morning, people on here and on AA are squabbling over the actions of admin and why particular posts have been deleted, and taking great personal offence at that, whilst a child is dying and his parents are watching him die, I will say again, I find it all inappropriate now.
Yes, we have a right to free speech and I would defend that to the hilt, but it doesn't mean we have to say everything we think. We also have the responsibility to self-regulate, judge what is right and appropriate to say and when is the best and most helpful time to be saying it and when might be better to choose not to.
I just think it would be more dignified if we chose to stop now.

SomeDyke · 26/04/2018 11:38

GA is general anaesthetic? Hence ventilation & intubation, is that what people are saying??
I know children are usually sedated, but in this case, would GA be required? They took another MRI scan in February (see document lisred above), and Dr there had already indicated no response to loud noises etc.
My understanding is that now there might be some small possibility of causing pain, and no medical benefit -- the February scan was asked for by the judge, but he has made his decision and had it upheld.

Oowatchasay · 26/04/2018 11:39

Do we know for definite that they are resuscitating Alfie? Where has this come from? I'm lost with all the threads

user838383 · 26/04/2018 11:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nolongersurprised · 26/04/2018 11:40

mynameisjune sedation isn’t enough for an MRI because there needs to be no movement artifact. Plus, all sedation would further reduce his (failing) respiratory effort and he could well die in the scanner. He would need intubation and ventilation and machines that go beep and PICU/anaesthetic staff. And then, what next? Another controlled extinction and back to nasal oxygen?

TheDrinksAreOnMe · 26/04/2018 11:40

Do we know for definite that they are resuscitating Alfie? Where has this come from? I'm lost with all the threads

TE said himself on a live stream, I believe, 3 times, they had given mouth to mouth

Oowatchasay · 26/04/2018 11:41

I know children are usually sedated, but in this case, would GA be required? They took another MRI scan in February (see document lisred above), and Dr there had already indicated no response to loud noises etc.

I find this weird as if you watch recent videos of him he is responsive, he even looks like he smiles at JE's voice. I'm confused Confused

nolongersurprised · 26/04/2018 11:41
  • terrible autocorrect - controlled extubation, not extinction
CaveMum · 26/04/2018 11:41

A very good and informative thread on Twitter about the legal side of this case: twitter.com/barristersecret/status/989195011043528704?s=21

On a light-hearted note, who knew there were so many popcorn-eating gifs?!