Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

there was that moscow (?) theater siege where a gas was pumped into the room to solve the standoff.
sadly it didn't work as intended and many people died.
I wonder now if it was a similar gas that was used.

Brown

That was a fentanyl based gas. It's not a nerve agent and Government press releases have said more than once that it was a nerve agent.

How weird Patriarchy - a new one perhaps then?

So it now turns out the Police Officer who was hospitalised did not actually attend the scene but was the first person to enter Skripal's house

Yes, DH and I thought he was at the house not first responder. He's a Detective Sergeant, and we don't get them wandering around the streets.

Likely they knew who he was straight away, and went to his house, and then came into contact with it there.

It never made sense about being the first responder, as the off duty doctor and nurse attended to them immediately and were not feeling unwell (although were treated, blood tests etc to check).

Very odd whatever it is. May not be a classic nerve agent at all but some kind of poison that acts in the same way (inhibits the bodies natural neurotransmitters from functioning properly)

Slow release in the body after an initial short exposure? I'm not a biologist or medically trained so I'm at the limits of my knowledge.

Either way that's seriously advanced stuff that you can't just make in your shed...

What was he doing in the home without protective gear? did they not realise what had happened at that point?

Don't think at that point they'd realised what was happening.

At the very beginning they thought it was the drug fentanyl. That's what all the papers were saying.

It s the facilities that are as much of a problem as the knowledge.

We don't know what (if any) chemical agents were used (we have only Rudd's shady words) so why you think anyone needs fancy facilities to produce something that kills/maims (a bit of extra potassium would do the trick nicely too) is a ridiculous straw to cling to for jsutifying jumping on the anti-Putin propaganda bandwagon.

Potassium can be lethal, yes, as can lots of other things, even water. But it's not a neurotoxin, mostly cardiac effects, and you'd want to administer it intravenously - which would be tricky - if you were really trying to kill someone.

All reports have been very clear that it was a nerve agent and they'd know this from the presenting symptoms and how the victims responded to treatment.

I'm thinking if it was ingested the agent would take longer to take effect, but then that wouldn't explain how the police officer was exposed.

Some expert commenting stated that it was an 'exotic' agent, not the usual nerve agents - something biological perhaps, like a tetrodotoxin (found in some fish, e.g. pufferfish). I don't have enough knowledge to speculate any further.

It's pretty clear that the authorities know what agent was used and how it was delivered and I expect we'll find out eventually.

Why did they think it was fentanyl, or was that just a rumour? An early witness described strange hand movements. That didn't sound like fentanyl.

I'm not even going to engage with weird anything but Putin counter theories counterpoint.

Not sure. Fentanyl was mentioned almost immediately. Not sure why.

Think given the circumstances of seeing two people on a bench throwing up etc, that drugs would be the cause, and not in anyone's wildest imagination would it be a nerve agent.

Dunno, re fentanyl, kitten. I read that too in one of the very early reports. It was probably someone saying 'remember that theatre siege, that was fentanyl' and it taking off from there.

Being from Salisbury, I have been following this case quite closely. I seem to have missed about the pc getting infected at the house, so can someone link me where thats said. I just had a look at the supposed exhumation and that has not happened. They took flowers etc from the graves, but no bodies have been dug up.
It was very strange going shopping there today, what with all the police presence, and all the news crews. Very much looking forward to things being back to their normal quiet selves.

Hi could someone please post the link for this thread ? I rekon my partner would like a read :) hes beem glued to the news about it so i could forward the link on. It wont allow me to do this on mobile.

Placemarking

In a former life I was an organic chemist. What extra equipment would be needed after that commonly found in an usual organic/inorganic lab? Is it possible to set your own lab? For a few grand I guess you could do it. Isn't that what drug dealers do? Or is just simpler to have it made in a legal lab and transport it through countries?

On a different thread it was suggested that it could be the Chinese. Sergal was starting to go back to spy work. It seems too obvious to be the Russians. Maybe it was done to frame Russia and cause international tensions between America, Russia and us? Its just a theory by someone on another thread but seems plausible to me.

Sostenuto

I think the fact it is obviously the Russians is the entire point. Russia has never had problems with killing people in obvious ways to send a message to others.

With an election coming up at the end of the month in Moscow, and seeing this on TV, how safe would you feel right now if you were a rival of Putin?

What about if you were considering working against him and had thought you were safe from reprisals because you live in the UK/US. Would this make you think again?

I agree. I think we like to live in a bubble where we ingnore how dangerous Putin and Russia are because facing the reality is pretty scary. Especially when we’ve given over large parts of our capital to become a playground for oligarchs. Given the news readers comments I just don’t think they give a single fuck what we think of them.

"What extra equipment would be needed after that commonly found in an usual organic/inorganic lab?"

If nerve agent, then high level containment areas. Including animal test areas and decontamination/disposal

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3187585-Is-there-a-thread-about-the-poisoning-of-Sirkal?msgid=76231121#76231121 @catlady45

Actually if they hadn't decided to go out for a meal no one would have known about it. They would have died in their house because that's where they must have been poisoned as the police officer took Ill in their house.

China is p..... Off with America being forced to try and kerb North Korea and the impending trade war. Also China would like Russia and America at each others throats. These are the most powerful nations on earth, why wouldn't one of them want to put the cat among the pigeons? Britain was used because the Russian a double agent was conveniently here. The Russians had absolved him of his crimes against Russia so why would they want to kill him 8 years later?

Sostenuto

From the russian perspective, you are never absolved of treason. He was part of the high level exchange that gave the Russians Anna Chapman back, so he wasn't a small time player.

More pertinently though is the implication that he has been involved in anti russian (or anti Putin) activity recently with his links to the whole election tampering piece.

I'm not a spy, but I can tell you that false flag operations of the sort you are describing are so difficult and prone to compromise as to be virtually worthless, because their chance of succeeding and not being shown to be a false flag at a later date are so low.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but seriously, think about risk Vs reward. Why would the Chinese risk using chemical weapons in the UK, with all the reputational and political fallout that would come to light if they were exposed, to 'stir up a bit of trouble' for Russia? It doesn't make any sense.

Couple that with the fact that Russian state TV has issued a not so subtle warning to other 'traitors', I don't think it's going to take Poirot to work out who did this.