Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

I don't know about that Yoga. I suppose to worth noting that it is 10 days since the poisoning occurred. That might have nothing to do with anything.

We are Ursula and that worries me enormously, having seen how they appear to have 'fans' who seem to be nothing more than armed thugs. I don't think our supporters will be safe at all.
Plus the whole message thing to Russia thing....

OYBBK I wonder if she is holding back until after the UN meeting. I also wonder what was said during her phone call with Trump yesterday evening as nothing much seems to have been said about that.

The amount of Russian funding of the Conservatives, plus the impact on the City of London if punitive financial measures are put in place has got to be in the forefront of her mind.

I think it may be something like that Yoga. It's a fine balance between sending a very firm message and reveleaing all your cards too early. We need to hold some stuff back.

how will they have time to fit in brexit negotiations at the same time as all this?

I'm watching the Commons debate re the poisoning just now. It's heartening to see The SNP, Lib Dems, DUP and Labour back benchers
all singing from the same song sheet on this threat to the whole country.

The response from Labours front bench was appalling however - perhaps the ties with the Communist Party of Great Britain are too close.

If the gas is turned off my Aga will go out. #firstworldproblem.

Only on Mumsnet would you see this comment

I need to stop reading up on this because it is frankly scary shit

Oh well, I don't pretend to understand the rules behind the diplomacy. I'll just watch with interest how this unfolds (and wonder how quickly I can set up my own little wind farm on the back lawn).

Presumably Russia will now expel some Brits as a tit-for-tat move.

Mays response is super weak and so i would nt expect any opposition to back her.
I do agree Corbyn got it wrong on Monday but today i thought he was spot on.

This foreign policy crisis does highlight why we are more effective in alliances and how weak we are outside of them, as Brexit progresses, (if it can) i think we ll realise this more and more.
the EU can put in place sanctions and are strong enough to make a difference to Russia, we are not (whether they would of course is another matter!)

Mays response is super weak and so i would nt expect any opposition to back her

Umm - every single party leader (apart from Corbyn) and countless individual members and backbenchers across all the parties have unequivocally backed her statement and indeed congratulated her on her strength
(Apart from Corbyn and his front bench)

Seems to me there is only one set of people out of step here.

Well not surprised that Corbyn is bothering. He'll probably roll out a red carpet for the tanks when they come.

There was a very illuminating comment last week (6 Mar) at the Fake News inquiry by the Commons committee for Digital, Media, Culture & Sport. My bolding.

data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/digital-culture-media-and-sport-committee/fake-news/oral/79824.html

Edward Lucas: [...] We need to protect ourselves better; that’s one element of it. We need to try and constrain Russia—make Russia pay a price for doing things we don’t like. We need to try to engage with Russia on some things and deliver very tough messages to them. We need to build up our resilience, and we need to try and find the next generation of people in Russia who may be in charge and see if we can talk to them.

However, I think the key thing we’ve got to do, and this is something that’s very close to both Bill’s heart and mine, is that we’ve got to understand that we can’t put prosperity ahead of security any more. If we think that only money matters, then we’re defenceless when people attack us using money. For 20-something years we’ve treated Russia just as an emerging economy, and these things as some political bumps in the road, thinking that nothing should get in the way of trade and investment. And the result is that dirty Russian money has flooded into the City; it’s flooded into the London real estate market, and it’s flooded into all sorts of other places .

That has created lobbies in this country who are extremely unhappy at the thought of relations with Russia going downhill, and you get those lobbies exercising power in all the political parties. So we’ve made it much more difficult for ourselves to constrain Putin on what is fundamentally his biggest weakness—$800 billion, which the Americans reckon is the amount of state-related Russian assets abroad, with $300 billion of them in America and the rest elsewhere.

As Bill has been so admirably campaigning for, we should be freezing and seizing and using that as a way of exerting pressure on Russia. But we don’t, because as soon as you try that you get very rich, influential people in our system coming along and saying, “Hang on a moment, that’s my business. I sell luxury flats to Russians. Don’t get in my way.” Unfortunately these big City law firms—big American law firms—are playing this scandalous role of laundering Russian money behind attorney-client privilege. We have a great deal of house cleaning to do, I’m afraid.

Personally I don't think it's that Corbyn is supporting the Russians, I think it's actually that his sense of 'being utterly fair' in exploring that it was absolutely the Russians and making sure that we scrupulously follow the letter or the law is over riding any idea of common sense or essential show of unity at this point.

I'm aware that we could end up between the pro corbyn and anti corbyn people with this. Please don't hijack the thread with this, we don't need the thread to become just another one where we bash individuals, let's keep this a constructive conversation.

Bill Browder was giving evidence in the same session, and it's very worth a read for background to the Magnitsky Act, commentary on what Putin wants (primarily safety for himself and his money), and commentary on Russian influence operations.

Or you can watch it here:
Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee
Tuesday 6 March 2018 Meeting started at 10.49am, ended 1.02pm
www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/6cf790a9-182d-40dc-a22a-e6a912e54b63

Browder & Lucas are approx the first 1:20 mins; the second hour is the Information Commissioner and is also a good watch.

I thought May would come out with some significant strong & new imaginative sanctions after her speech on Monday, instead we get weak and wishywashy.

May has repeatedly blocked financial measures against Russia and of course blocked the enquiry into the Litivenko murder using a far more dangerous method, until the High Court deemed otherwise, even then it took almost 7 years to happen.
If any one has rolled out the red carpet for the Russians its been her,

Also dont forget, she has accepted £800k in donations from Russians since she became PM, so of course wont want to financial hurt any Russian money.

btw i dont particularly like Corbyn but he isnt the PM, so what he says or not, is pretty much meaningless.

@PerkingFaintly
great info from the Fake News inquiry!

Having already known the nerve agent, and closing down Zizzi's and the Mill (on the 5th March), why was the car brought to the garage for examination and not somewhere more secure?

@gluteus My take on it would be that when the car was taken to the garage, they were still working on the original assumption that the nerve agent had been administered to the Skirpals in town somewhere - in Zizzis or in Market Walk on the way through to the Maltings, so wouldn't have affected the car, which had been parked in Sainsbury's car park at around 1pm, and which, of course, the pair never made it back to. I imagine that's where they were headed when they collapsed on the bench.

The fact that nerve agent was then discovered all over the car prompted the car to be removed from the garage, and Sainsbury's car park to be cordoned off. That also suggests that the contamination occurred before the car was parked at Sainsbury''s at 1pm.

One of the first speeches trump gave hinted he wanted nothing to do with article 5. He finally, grudgingly said he was oK with it in July last year, but in his first European jolly he was openly avoiding the issue, refusing to say he backed it etc etc. Remember Poland at the time made a big fuss (understandably...)

Trump is now seemingly neutered by Russia - all very interesting.

I’m sure the Russians have been playing him like a fish. The man is an idiot with absolutely zero grasp of geopolitics or even basic foreign policy. He’s completely unsuited to ruling the country. It’s staggering he is allowed to - I mean there have been plenty of presidents who’s politics I’d disagree with totally but you accept they’re fit to govern because they have a solid sensible advisor network and decades of political experience. Trump is an utter fool and is being used by Russia.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no supporter of Vlad, but you certainly can’t level accusations of stupidity at him. He knows exactly what he’s doing and is a very intelligent and canny man.

Yes Donkey, that sounds about right. But I still don't really get why the car wasn't considered. They'd cordoned off the house, the cemetery, restaurant and pub. They were mapping out their journey and then (I assume) trying to work out what happened.

Not to treat the car or the car park in the same manner (as the flowers on the grave) is just a bit bizarre to me.

I still have absolutely not landed back on planet earth for some time.

First Brexit, then Trump, now Salisbury at the centre of a chemical weapon attack.

My little head can't handle anymore. I need some

So as the UK can identify this chemical agent, by formula and origin, certainly enough to be 100% sure its from the Kremlin, then why the delays in Salisbury and the lack of information so apparent?

I completely believed Blair when he said we had to attack Iraq because they could launch chemical weapons against Europe, i am older and wiser now.

I didn't believe Blair at all, marched against the Iraq war, but I do believe our government this time, Russia's response is only confirming it further.

Yes, I see your point, gluteus. You're right, they'd cordoned off anything which had any connection to the couple, or where they'd been. I don't know why the car was ignored, other than not putting 2 and 2 together. Maybe they need us on the case!

Also, if the agent is so easily transferable without apparently losing any of its potency, I can't help thinking there has been massively more cross contamination than anyone seems to be letting on, given the amounts found at various busy venues which would have continued being used by the public for over 24 hours until the full extent of the contamination started to emerge.

Will join you in

Seems odd this ultra deadly nerve agent didnt kill the guy. I think May needs to be carefull before she starts a war over some old Russian bloke.

Don't fight in my name please, i don't think we should be giving residence to double agent spies.

Maybe they need us on the case!

I would so be up for that. DH and I have had daily conversations about this. I’m one step away from getting a flip chart and a cork board and pinning up loads of photos with arrows and post it notes everywhere

I agree. I think there’s far more than they’ve let on, and they’re hoping it’s low risk rather than knowing it is.

Cheers

I’m one step away from getting a flip chart and a cork board and pinning up loads of photos with arrows and post it notes everywhere

Haha! I keep suggesting to dh that I ought to contact the police with my various theories and observations, in case the glaringly obvious (to me!) hasn't already occurred to them.

Yes, I think they could do with our help

Of course, if we had access to all the CCTV, we’d have had this all tied up ages ago.

I’m still not convinced it was on...