Deary me, did anybody read this piece about abortion by Caitlin Moran?

[emkana]

Dare I post this link

Agree with CM overall, but reeling from some of comments on the article! Eeeek. Tis scary how many extremists there are out there, luckily I only seem to encounter them online and not in reality.

Did find the nonchalant attitude slightly unpleasant.

LS i was expressing my own personal opinion on what is right FOR ME. I am certainly not an extremist and find this suggestion a little offensive TBH.

Message withdrawn

Absolutely Pruni.

Madamez....why on earth would you???

Mental note to self; avoid all abortion threads in the future.

i liked the article, though could have done with more paragrahs. [addled eyesight]

agree with her and found the miranda sawyer's articles reactionary.

It's funny. (Not ha ha funny). I would never have had an abortion in her situation, but equally how am I to know? The woman whose house we are buying has the same chronic condition as dh, albeit far less seriously at the mo as she is able to work. She told me the reason they only have one child is because of this; when he was a newborn, she was in so much pain she couldn't hold him except to feed him.

Would she have aborted if she had had a second pregnancy? I have no idea and have no plans to ask! I won't let dh's illness dictate the size of my family to me, but equally, if I were the one who was ill, I would have an entirely different take on things.

Of course no-one's writing about abortion as a positive thing; it isn't. It is less negative than another outcome would have been. Only the people involved can truly judge which outcome they believe to be less negative.

I liked the article, as a mother of two beautiful boys conceived on first month of trying and having had a termination in the past, (DH's Deivery room promise of a vasectomy hasn't materialised)I truly understand what she is saying (although however much I would like to change em, our worktops are here to stay).
I was once at a Hen Party and 10 out of 15 Hens admitted to an abortion. Personally, mine has haunted me and made me really hate my pregnancies but I am vehemently Pro-choice.

I come from this from a slightly different angle than most probably. I lived in japan-= where the attitude she seeks does exist. A friend got pregnant whilst there, and was given real grief for not having an abortion. "a baby needs a father, it's not right that you are having this baby'. I remmeber being shocked initially hearing it, then realising how many of our values are judeo-christian.

I know a couple of people who have had terminations following other children- they felt their family was complete. I had no problem supporting them. I hope and pray that I'm never put in the position of being asked to support a friend who has a termination for a disability that is compatible with life because I would really struggle. From afar yes (and recognising that they're perfectly entitled to make their own choice), up close, nope I really couldn't do it, and I have no idea how I would get out of it. Really I'd rather not know.

Caitlin Moran has said what many would prefer was unsaid. Women are practically ordered to find abortion traumatic; it's as if society demands suffering as the price for controlling your own fertility. Well, sod that.

Having ds hasn't changed my pro-choice stance at all. Either you believe women are full human beings who are in charge of their own bodies, or you don't. I happen to believe we are.

I'm very sorry for anyone who is distressed by having an abortion but I don't see that distress as an argument for the oppression of women - quite the reverse. Maybe if more people felt able to talk honestly about their feelings, it would help others facing a similar situation.

gess - that's exactly where my own shift in feelings has been since I had a child - and started using MN a lot. Since having my very much wanted DS I can't imagine wanting a child but wanting 'this' child, but not 'that' child. When i wanted a child, i wanted the child i was pg with, come what may.

But that's why i think it is hard for people with differnt views to ever be reconciled. Chocface - if you, or anyone, belive that abortion is fundamentally wrong because the potential for a full-term baby is sacrosanct from conception onwards, then I understand that viewpoint and actually have respect for it. It isn't mine, but i don't expect you (i.e anyone who holds those views) to be sympathetic to my viewpoint - how could you?
But i would still feel huge sympathy for someone who felt they could not go ahead with a pregnancy on the grounds of disability.

in pakistan, people are very blase about abortion. there is no great soul searching and afaik, no condemnation either. just a fact of life.. some women use it as a method of contraception.

Probably its a reflection of our own lives though isn't it Blu. I couldn't dish out the sympathy close by for someone terminatiing for a disability compatible with life, because what they'd actually be terminating would be something probably a whole lot easier/more able than my ds1. And I couldn;t stomach all the "I have to think about the other children" and the "I couldn't cope"s. I think I'd just want to shout "wrong audience" at them. I'd really just rather not know at all, and would hope they would have the sense to find support eleswhere! A bit like if I had a termination now becuase I felt my family was too large- I'd never go to my cousin who is undergoing IVF for support iyswim.

Completely agree it doesn't have to be a traumatic experience. I know several people who have had that experience (one 'wrong time'. one "couldn;t do pregnancy again') I would rather think that if it isn't- it proves that that person made the right choice for them!

That sounds like Japan stitch.

Soviet gymnasts used to get pg because the uptake of nutrients in early pregnancy made them extra healthy, and then have early terminations.

I understand your 'wong audience' scenario exactly, gess.

And thnk you are spot on with your last para, too - about people having made the right decision.

an extremely fertile relative of mine was so ill with last pg (twins) - that we nearly lost her and the dt's - she was in late 30's and this was her 5 pg and 2nd set of twins - she now has 7 children and if she got pg again I would march her to the clinic rather than lose her! She got pg while breastfeeding/ on pill and using other contraceptives nothing is foolproof - fortunately her dh has got the snip.

A woman has to have ownership over her body even if she is pg - caitlin moran was making some very sensible points.

Oh please, what the hell do Soviet gymnasts have to do with the price of fish?

Message withdrawn

More grusome as to how they got pregnant?

Chocolateface: I'm just saying, our cultural sensibilities re abortion are not universal.

As I understand it Islam, Judaism and Christianity (but I may be wrong on some of these - and i know there re different interpretations) actually believe that the soul enters the body 120 days after conception - when, in old fashioned language, the feotus 'quickens'. Not far off our qualififcation of 'early' - which is acceptable to more people than late.

Has anyone read 'Freakonomics'? It opens with the proposition that a projected spike in crime rates in the mid-90's in the U.S. never happened because, twenty years after the legalisation of abortion, a generation of unwanted children were not coming of age.

I think the worktop analogy is metaphorical. Obviously granite = no-brainer.

lucyellensmum - 'LS i was expressing my own personal opinion on what is right FOR ME. I am certainly not an extremist and find this suggestion a little offensive TBH.'

I don't think I mentioned you anywhere in my post! I was talking about some of the very extreme comments on the timesonline website, not you or anyone else on mumsnet.

I've read Freakonomics; yes it's an interesting proposition

littlesarah, i am very sorry, i guess this subject does make me highly emotional and that may make my views sound a little extreme so i was probably being oversensitive, my apologies.

i will always be pro choice, but since having had first a miscarriage [unplanned pregnancy]and then ds, i feel much, much more uncomfortable about abortion in general and don't feel i could have one, but of course i may feel differently one day, no idea. i can't bring myself to read the article, as i do find it a very difficult and emotive subject.