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What do people think is most likely to happen with the irish/UK Border Part 2.

785 replies

cathyclown · 01/12/2017 18:45

OK I took it upon myself in my arrogance. Nah, just enjoyed all the views whether we agreed or not, it has been very interesting.

So carry on folks. Link below to the original thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73760649#73760649

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Maryz · 05/12/2017 19:12

Wow, BossyTits, two points:

  1. "There’s no issue here as far as I can see" - you aren't looking very hard
  1. You are a very special type of Brexiter. One of the "I got into the UK, now let's shut up shop and not let anyone else in".

I'm surprised you aren't embarrassed to admit it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/12/2017 19:16

The fact is THERE IS NO SOLUTION to the Brexit v Good Friday conundrum

There are at least 2 possible solutions

Revoke Brexit
Remain in the EEA / EFTA

Bur our esteemed government would rather put a bomb under the GFA then let forriners enter our sceptred isle Hmm

Maryz · 05/12/2017 19:17

I actually think your attitude is fucking disgusting if you or your relatives were let into the UK as a refugee. Because now you have voted for a policy that will stop other refugees getting into the country.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Maryz · 05/12/2017 19:17

Sorry, that was to BossyTits.

LaurieMarlow · 05/12/2017 19:20

Actually I think those two possible solutions are going to become more palatable to May as she begins to realise the impossibility of pleasing everyone in a hard brexit.

bearstrikesback · 05/12/2017 19:23

I know a few of your No 2 category Maryz .

They are Asian and it was really surreal hearing them talking about how "there are too many immigrants and they needed to be kept out". I think some of them actually openly campaigned for Brexit too. Really, really odd given they are first generation too.

BubblesBuddy · 05/12/2017 19:25

Do you not think lots of people voted leave because they were “all right jack” and never gave a second thought to the problems this disastrous vote would bring to others? Gove, Boris and Farage for a start. They told everyone it would be easy and the sunny uplands awaited! We now do know we cannot have it all!

Maryz · 05/12/2017 19:29

I know Irish people who have been in the UK a long time who are like that. They are immigrants themselves, but of course they are the right type of immigrants - white, middle aged, middle class, speak English heads up their own arses etc.

Most people in the public eye did, Bubbles. But rather than tar every single Brexiter with the same brush, I'm giving some of them the benefit of the doubt and presuming that they genuinely thought it would be better for everyone.

I haven't met any of them, but I'm sure they exist [sigh]

mathanxiety · 05/12/2017 19:30

'the EU has been terrible to Ireland in the past'. [Bossy]

Bullshit.

Ireland has a thriving agribusiness sector, a world-leading pharmaceutical industry, motorways, regions that are not only still populated but actually being developed thanks to the EU. The farm my mother grew up on has an annual turnover of €1.2million. The difference between my cousin's children's life there in the last ten years and my mother's and her siblings' in the 1930s and 40s is so great it is almost like another universe.

On top of that, women in Ireland have reaped the benefit of EU policies on women's equality - right to work, right to own property and a bank account - in 1970 women faced a marriage bar in the Civil Service. Society as a whole has benefited from divorce legislation and gay rights legislation. All of this is guaranteed by the ECHR and the ECJ. Then there are little details like prisoners' rights and consumer protection. Oh and the GFA.

I have many cousins living in continental European countries, some of whom graduated from universities in Italy, Germany, and Sweden. I have relatives by marriage from Lithuania, Germany, and Poland. Ireland has become far less insular. I have cousins in Ireland who work for companies headquartered in other EU states. They did not have to emigrate as all but two of my grandfather's family had to.

Without the EU Ireland would be Puerto Rico, not quite another state of the US, sharing all the American negatives and not eligible for the positives. This will be the UK's fate, outside of the EU.

Humpsfor20yards · 05/12/2017 19:34

We now do know we cannot have it all!
We still don't know know that though. There are still brexiteers who think that we deserve special treatment.

Maryz · 05/12/2017 19:37

And before anyone says it - on women's rights, it's only because of EU pressure that there has been any movement on abortion, with it looking likely that we'll have another referendum next year. So historically we aren't great on women's rights, but we are at least progressing. Something that Westminister doesn't seem to be managing to sort in NI at all.

Nice to be on the thread at the same time, Math Smile - timezones usually mean I see your posts the next day.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 05/12/2017 19:41

I’m sure they do exist, probably in the section of people already being royally screwed over by this government. I can’t say any of the Leavers I know fall into that category though.

Wasn’t the technological solution that was suggested randomly thrown into the ring and makes Trump’s wall look like a good idea?

LivLemler · 05/12/2017 20:59

And before anyone says it - on women's rights, it's only because of EU pressure that there has been any movement on abortion, with it looking likely that we'll have another referendum next year. So historically we aren't great on women's rights, but we are at least progressing. Something that Westminister doesn't seem to be managing to sort in NI at all.

Plus I'm pretty sure Ireland is better than the UK for women in lots of ways other than reproductive rights - smaller paygap, higher educational attainment, more women in power and leadership etc.

Pisses me off to see people stating "facts" about Ireland that simply aren't true. Ireland loves the EU and the vast majority of people are in no doubt that we would be far worse off without it.

I need to stop reading these threads, I seem to just be constantly ranting Hmm

cathyclown · 05/12/2017 21:02

Disappointing times now. But looking back on it all, IF the stories are true that May did not give DUP any text or wording before flying off to Brussels, well in lots of ways I can't blame them for throwing their toys out of the pram on this. But I don't know how true that is really, does anyone?

What does grate is for DUP to blame the ROI Government. That is just so not right, but fits in with their ethos. UK good, ROI very very bad.

What they don't seem to realise is that the issue is not triumvirate, it is between the UK and the EU of which ROI is a part. OK I know ROI has skin in the game but it seems to me they were quite careful not to rock any boats and to enter the agreement for the good of the entire island of Ireland.

I have little time for the bigoted two faced fundamentalists in that party, just for the record. Yes they want the same things as the UK no discussion, but support the lack of abortion and gay marriage. They probably enjoyed the Gay Cake Gate too. Who knows.

I said a good few posts back that a regulatory alignment for the ENTIRE UK might be a good bet right now. It is either that or no deal really. I think.

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MynewnameisKy · 05/12/2017 21:54

DUP are effectively saying consent of Northern unionists is prerequisite for any EU UK deal. No mention of consent of Northern nationalists - nor of remain majority in N Ireland. Important to keep in mind how one sided this is.

LivLemler · 05/12/2017 22:07

DUP are effectively saying consent of Northern unionists is prerequisite for any EU UK deal. No mention of consent of Northern nationalists - nor of remain majority in N Ireland. Important to keep in mind how one sided this is.

In fairness, even though no nationalist politicians currently have any power, the Irish government's insistence that there is no hard border is in line with the nationalist view. Unionists are in more danger of losing out here (not least because May and co are doing such a crap job).

I do think if the solution reached is to put any kind of border/ID check ( Hmm )/customs check in place either between NI and ROI or NI and GB, then it should be put to a vote in NI. It's too significant a change to just put in place without the consent of the people. IMHO.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 05/12/2017 22:25

There wouldn’t be mention of nationalist consent, would there?

The only reason the DUP get to consent is because May stupidly called an election.

MynewnameisKy · 05/12/2017 22:27

No mention of nationalist consent and anyone nationalist or otherwise who has different opinion to the DUP is quickly dismissed as being a Shinner/ Provo.

Their is a moderate nationalist viewpoint too!

cathyclown · 05/12/2017 22:32

There most certainly is a moderate Nationalist AND Unionist view.

Unfortunately neither voice can be heard anymore. It is either DUP or SF now.

SDLP worked so hard for peace, as did Alliance, they are owed a huge debt of gratitude. But the result of their sarcrifice is polarisation now. Sigh.

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Cleebope2 · 06/12/2017 00:02

Brexit has polarised NI society. I for one voted Alliance almost always, sometimes SDLP sometimes UUP to keep the DUP out ( it didn't work) . Now I may vote Sinn Fein for the first time in my life and I don't even much like them, just to strengthen the anti Brexit camp in NI .

Maryz · 06/12/2017 00:15

Poor old John Hume will be turning in his grave Sad

treaclesoda · 06/12/2017 06:17

John Hume won't be turning in his grave because he isn't dead! He's in very poor health though...

implantsandaDyson · 06/12/2017 06:18

John Hume isn't dead.

FinallyHere · 06/12/2017 07:32

those two possible solutions are going to become more palatable to May as she begins to realise the impossibility of pleasing everyone in a hard brexit.

Could this have been the cunning plan all along, would a PM have been prepared to make it look as if she had genuinely tried to Brexit but had been scuppered by others?

FinallyHere · 06/12/2017 07:37

[where is that edit function]

I meant to point out that May is a formerly Remain voting PM