What do people think is most likely to happen with the irish/UK Border Part 2.

[cathyclown]

OK I took it upon myself in my arrogance. Nah, just enjoyed all the views whether we agreed or not, it has been very interesting.

So carry on folks. Link below to the original thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73760649#73760649

"Do you think there will be a deal by the end of the week?"

No, I don't. I don't see how there can be because we are back to two options. Well three I suppose.

Option 1: Special consideration for NI, no border between Ireland and NI, some sort of Irish sea border - completely rejected today. If suggested again DUP will go ape-shit.

Option 2: Hard border between Ireland and NI. Certain chaos and probable violence. Sinn Fein will go ballistic (unfortunately, possibly literally).

Option 3: No agreement. Possible general election. But in the meantime, blame everyone else for the lack of agreement. Try very hard to make sure that it's definitely not the UK's fault, oh no, they (mostly English people) are just exercising their democratic right and everyone else can go fuck themselves.

I've gone from to to today.

Of course they do sashi, but they don’t care. The name “Ulster” means different things to different political affiliations. Correctly it describes the 9 counties of the province of Ulster, but to the Ulster Unionists it describes Northern Ireland and no amount of explanation will change their opinion. Edward Carson, being a Unionist, naturally used the term in the way that his politics dictated.

Iprefercoffeetotea, I'm talking about future contributions. They are offering, for the sake of peace, to let part of a non-EU country have the benefits of being in the EU, if that makes sense.

The UK can only stay in the customs union if they allow free movement of people. That's been clear from the start, even though some politicians are demanding one without the other.

I get your point about the Irish passports, but there are many in the North who wouldn't hold one. They don't want to be Irish, and why should they? They want to be part of the UK, as they are.

dd has just said "ffs, you know the world is fucked when I find myself agreeing with Arlene Foster".

That's how I feel now. The DUP are twats, but they are right in this situation, May has shafted them.

Will NI want a referendum and leave the United Kingdom? Like Scotland had a referendum? I really don’t know much about the whole situation but it just seems totally insane.

I think if we had another general election and labour campaigned on a remain manifesto they would walk it. They should have done that last time.

The DUP wanted Brexit!

This is what AF said:

“I am proud of the fact that this decision was taken by the people."

After the Brexit vote I have personally helped several members of my family to get Irish passports - we are a mixed bunch, and the ones I was getting forms for and helping them with check and send were most definitely not the nationalist side (they all had Irish passports already).

Sure even Ian Óg was encouraging his constituents to get an Irish passport - its not as if they have to give up the British one to get one.

So my sympathy for her is limited.

At the moment a NI referendum wouldn't win a vote to leave.

The people in the North are British - some of them might not want to be but that's what they are. They can't be forced out.

Sinn Fein want an all Ireland referendum, but the DUP would have a canary (so would Ireland, everyone would vote for it, but we couldn't afford it, so I hope they don't ever do it).

A UK wide referendum would probably happily kick out NI, Scotland and Wales.

What about this scenario...

UK including NI stay in the Customs Union for a transition period after Brexit date. NI stays in indefinitely.

That would give UK time to sort out their trade deals with other countries including EU. Who knows what will happen in the transition period, an election, DUP outside the tent, whatever.

It is all happening far too fast I think. Time to give space and draw a breath.

The DUP will have the support of a few mavericks on their stance today, they certainly will not have brought the North Antrim farming community (who support them, or did) with them today and many others too.

I am very disappointed that the DUP without any mandate has scuppered this. But I am sure they are delighted with themselves. Fair enough it was within their gift to do this, not democratically I don't think, but strategically.

They should bring in abortion and gay marriage forthwith if they want everything aligned with the UK shouldn't they.

I wish someone with cojones would put that to them. But I suppose they will respond that their stance is purely on a Brexit trade and political basis. Sigh.

Sorry, cross post. I was replying to MaryZ

Yes Abra1d, she's a complete and utter twat. She encouraged a vote for Brexit because she thought that would bring NI closer to the rest of the UK and further away from the possibility of Irish reunification.

She forgot that the rest of the UK didn't care about NI.

Sorry, I'm getting a tad ranty

We aren’t British though. We can choose. That’s the whole point of the GFA. We can be British, or Irish, or both.

I was born in Belfast and the only passport I have ever had is Irish.

cathy, slowing it down would be a good idea, but not what the Rabid Brexiters in middleclass England want, so it's not likely.

I'd love to see an election called, and hope someone would have the sense to suggest a re-referendum. But I don't think anyone has the guts; certainly not Corbyn. Or Boris. Who are, ironically, the two who could do it, and I don't believe either of them actually want Brexit, they just want to be in a position to put pressure on the EU and improve Britain's position.

Unfortunately for everyone, the referendum had the opposite effect.

Sky news have a good up to date timeline. Varadkar and Coveney sounding quite reasonable. They are "disappointed". They are 100% throwing the DUP under the bus though.

Not a word from May all day!!!!!

I'm angry too, Maryz. I've got many stakes in this, and it's hard to plan sensibly around universities, housing, jobs and pensions -
you know, the stuff of economic prosperity - when this absolute debacle is going on.

I'm eligible for passports/residency on the Isle of Man, in any future independent Scotland, and probably in England (UK) where my children were born and where I've worked and paid NI for 35 years.

I'm starting to feel anxious in ways that my English colleagues, friends and relatives are clearly not 'getting'. English hegemony strikes again.

I'm angry that so much stability and reciprocity throughout the British Islands is being flushed down the toilet.

FannagBeg,

"I'm angry that so much stability and reciprocity throughout the British Islands is being flushed down the toilet."

Yes I agree and so will millions more too. It seems to me that it is all so unnecessary and divisive. It has polarised many views, which I thought we had successfully moved on from.

Peace is the important one. GFA sorted that, and it is an International Agreement too, so therefore cannot be sidelined by the UK unilaterally on a whim. I think they realise that though to be fair.

Very sad if things descend into mayhem again. And I am not being dramatic, but it could in an instant. Hopefully not, but why scupper all the work that was done to ensure peace for the sake of a mess of pottage, for that is all it will be for most people, and only the elites will gain.

So sad for all today.

But with my optimistic hat on (or maybe my cynical one!), I think something will be agreed.

Otherwise the elites won't get to phase 2 where they will make all their money!

I think the rabid middle class Brexiteers are not the problem. The problem is people like the elderly man I met in the gym. He is poor, has a gym subsidy via the GP for his health, which is poor. He doesn’t wear trainers because he can’t afford them. He voted Brexit because he ‘doesn’t like being told what to do’. Whatever that meant.

And there are large cities of people of similar views and similarly poor means in the north of England, with not a Waitrose around.

The middle class Brexiteers I know have gone very quiet. I suspect they would vote remain if they could rewind.

yy, that's true.

I've met a few recently who I would put in the "we got in, we're going to make sure no-one else does" camp - they haven't thought further than that and want the borders sealed and never opened again, no matter what the cost.

There is a solution, it's the whole of the UK staying in the single market. This is the position favoured by most in all regions, political parties and acroose he remain/leave divide. It will piss some people off and it is a ridiculous, pointless, expensive nonsense but it's all we have IMO.

For the record I favour and will continue to fight for Remain but trying to think "solution" pragmatically.

Totally unrelated, but in other Irish News

irishpost.co.uk/irish-villagers-complain-viagra-plant-fumes-men-dogs-walking-around-hard-ons/

I didn't think Theresa May would play Jenga - so ineptly and unnecessarily - with our lives. I actually thought she had a little bit of moral integrity and some filters.

But no. She is the most dangerous disappointment in modern politics (for me) since Blair and his Iraq crusade.

Sorry for being a bit ranty but I'm a tad upset.

This is even easier to solve now

We just have a Norway style agreement for the UK/EU but without free movement of people (except for Irish)

objections?

We just have a Norway style agreement for the UK/EU but without free movement of people (except for Irish)

The Norway style agreement includes FOM.

The 4 freedoms are indivisible.

With free movement it'd be an ideal solution.