What do people think is most likely to happen with the irish/UK Border Part 2.

[cathyclown]

OK I took it upon myself in my arrogance. Nah, just enjoyed all the views whether we agreed or not, it has been very interesting.

So carry on folks. Link below to the original thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73760649#73760649

May has treated the whole of NI with contempt today. I personally am fine with an Irish sea border, but I can completely understand why others aren't. To agree to that without discussing it with anyone here is disgraceful.

As is the fact that we don't have a government to discuss it with - our MLAs need to get their asses in gear and represent their communities and NI as a whole.

Bloody hell.

Just when you think England can't find any other way to be crap to NI.

Arlene Foster looked genuinely shaken on the BBC clip.

I wonder if TM has unwittingly stitched them up. What are the terms of their 'deal' and can they go against TM here, whilst keeping their nice fat bribe?

The DUP is cutting off its nose to spite its face. Ireland has offered NI a way out of Brexit, which would be disastrous for the region. It's prepared to throw everything under the bus. They lose either way.

Coffee, there is no unwittingly about it. May has stitched them up.

There is now someone else she can blame for the whole fiasco. So far, British negotiators and politicians have been blaming the EU, Ireland, Varadkar and anyone else they can think of. They can now also blame Foster and the DUP. And if the DUP walk out (which they should, surely they can't stay supporting this conservative government?) she can blame them for the fall of the government, the new general election, and the complete falling apart of the (I think non-existent) progress so far.

The more people they can blame, the less responsibility they have to take themselves.

We all knew this wasn't a runner; don't tell me May didn't. She isn't that thick.

I don’t see how they can come to an agreement. If May pushes ahead with this suggestion the C and S deal with the DUP is likely to fall apart forcing a general election. Not to mention that everyone else bar England is looking for the same deal!

Ireland and the EU won’t accept a hard border.

What a ridiculous situation. Surely a soft Brexit is the only answer.

This seems appropriate right now:

Or preferably a new referendum now that the population are more knowledgable about what this actually means

If the Tory government put as much effort into sorting the god damn problem as they put into trying to find scapegoats for deflection purposes, we might have made some progress by now.

I empathise with all you NI people on here. Today was tough and very disappointing. The arrogance of the DUP is breathtaking, and considering that Foster is not in executive office, she is pushing the boundaries of democracy by doing what she did today. What mandate has she got for that?

Anyway, here we are.

Do you think there will be a deal by the end of the week? Is this just choreography and mind games and political seat shuffling or is May just totally incompetent or a lame duck?

I am a bit punch drunk by all this at the moment.

Oh and of course SF have come out of the traps with what I think is inflammatory messaging under the circumstances. They haven't opened their mouths for months.

It all looks kind of bleak and ominous for NI. But be hopeful, stay positive. All is not lost.

Perfect summing up littlegreyauditor

Which makes me wonder what they actually want. Maybe they're not looking for solutions, just waiting for the whole thing to collapse completely and become Corbyn's problem.

Arlene Foster has never had a mandate for the stance she has pushed- despite the DUP majority in the elections- N Ireland voted remain. She should always have been representing the wishes of our electorate but she can’t be described as a democrat despite the party name.

Such a pity that we in NI repeatedly shoot ourselves in the foot by electing the extremists on both sides instead of the middle.

Vlad is live on Sky News now.

Breaking news. The UK has conceded that Single Market and CU will apply to NI. Thus a seamless border.

Except that isn't what's happened at all.

"Regulatory alignment" in key areas on both sides of the border does not equal "NI staying in the customs union & single market".

The usual misdirection & spin from commentators & people who should know better is, I think, deliberate.

(I'm not referring to people on this thread, but to people like Foster, Sturgeon, Kahn etc)

Faith,

it was breaking news at the time.

Regulatory alignment in any event would only apply to those issues of mutual co-operation under the GFA.

Nothing was clear earlier. And it still isn't!

Faith,

it was breaking news at the time.

Regulatory alignment in any event would only apply to those issues of mutual co-operation under the GFA.

Nothing was clear earlier. And it still isn't!

Sorry for the double post.

I'd have thought a sensible solution would be for the UK to stay in the customs union. I know that means no trade deals away from the EU, but it would save so much money and hassle for the UK government and businesses. And we won't get trade deals for years.

We didn't have a 90-10 vote on Brexit, it was nearly half and half. A compromise of this sort should totally be on the table.

I meant we won't get trade deals for years if we negotiate them ourselves.

I'm not having a pop at you Cathy, sorry (I see how it looked that way, sorry).

It's the people with power who should know better that I'm pissy with.
Everything is just a game to them it seems.

Faith,

No need to apologise, things are moving quickly here. I know you weren't having a go at me.

Onwards with the debate/comment!

I am watching sky news and both the Leo varadkar and simon Coveney are coming across very well and diplomatic. Wish Arlene Foster should take note instead of spewing her stupid comments about the Irish government

it's a massive offer by the EU, to let part of a country have full EU benefits, when the country itself isn't contributing to the EU at all

I kind of disagree with this slightly. I take your point on NI not contributing, although query the £50 billion which the UK is contributing, and which is partly funded by NI taxpayers.

But the real point is, surely, that nearly everyone who lives in NI was born in NI (or another EU country) and therefore qualifies for an Irish passport (or other EU passport). The numbers born on the UK mainland or outside the EU are likely to be very small and even some of them may have parents/grandparents born on the island of Ireland so still qualify. So you have a country/territory/call it what you will outside the EU, which is populated by EU citizens. Of course it has to have a special status.

Edward Carson should not have used the term Ulster as Northern Ireland is only part of the province of Ulster. The other part of it is in Ireland. The provinces of Ireland are also ancient Gaelic delineations, so it's amusing to hear Unionists bandying out about the term. The 'red hand' is also an ancient Gaelic symbol. I'm guessing the people who wave those flags about don't realise that.