What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

This is why we're going to end up with a disastrous exit from the EU. Our government are too busy trying to win the votes of pig-ignorant people like Martina who spout complete nonsense and can't be bothered to spend ten minutes scanning a thread which tells her pretty much in words of one syllable why we can't just "put up a border".

I don't mind if people are genuinely misinformed, or if they have a reasonably thought out counter-argument that I might just not agree with, but I am becoming infuriated that we're setting ourselves up for a disaster because the government is courting the votes of the wilfully ignorant.

Here's a new take:

Let's say the UK agrees to have NO border - then what?

ie. UK leaves EU but keeps NI/ROI border free as it currently is, and leaves it up to EU to impose any border conditions etc.. would you go along with that?

The referendum wording gave no clue as to the implications of Brexit. None.

I am not surprised that some live on in blissful ignorance and focus on "getting our sovereignty back, no migrants, NHS needs the millions, the EU is a behomoth, etc."

That is the message that was sent out, well that is the message that the slightly slim majority focused on anyway.

However, we all know there should not have been a ref at all. Not required. Government as our elected reps could have done it on a vote in Parliament. And as we all know it was advisory only, but TM and the Tories did a railroad jobbie on it, rather than sitting back and informing people about the implications of leaving. No, not done. The will of the people shyte.

They took a gamble, gave no information, sent out false positives. And here we are now.

@Martina88, This is how close simmering sectarian violence is to the surface in NI.

2012-2017: Thousands of NI people forced from homes due to sectarian intimidation (esp. loyalist paramilitaries).

12 Nov 2017 Pipebomb found near Rememberance parade route (blamed on Republican dissidents).

26 Nov 2017 Townspeople rally to support man attacked with hammer for opposing Loyalist paramilitaries.

Come on , who's going to answer my new question:

ie: why don't we just leave it as it is now but with with UK out of EU?

No border means lots of things, primarily the fact that pesky immigrants can enter the UK (NI) freely via ROI. They won't care who leaves, but the UK might be concerned about who enters.

A premise on which Brexit was framed I thought.

"Call the EU's bluff"!! Laugh? I nearly pissed myself. All about borders, innit?

Because the DUP who have hold over Westminster in order for them to hold a majority in government, don't want that.

Cathy, that's why I think the exception that might work would be free travel for both British and Irish citizens. Still going to need border checks though as unwanted EU citizens could travel to Ireland and then to Britain. But it might alleviate the potential for Irish violence to recommence. As Ireland is not part of Schengen though, I'm not sure that it might be as problematic as they think.

"why don't we just leave it as it is now but with with UK out of EU?"

That would be telling the EU that they shouldn't try to control their own borders.

ROI would be forced to choose between hard border in north & hard border with rest-EU. ROI is furious that anyone is contemplating making them choose.

As far as I can understand it, up until now, an EU citizen could travel happily to Switzerland, France, England, Wales, Ireland.
A non-EU citizen with for e.g. a visa to travel to France for e.g. could happily travel unchecked throughout all of Europe except to the UK or Ireland due to Schengen agreement. They would need a further visa to get to Ireland or the Uk.
Now, after Brexit, even EU citizens won't be able to travel to the UK without I'm presuming a visa? Is that going to be the case?

whoyagonna,

That is what is happening as we speak. There could be thousands of people sneaking up to NI every day, there are no checks. But as non EU they would not get into Ireland first without a visa. EU members are fine as you know.

Post Brexit (no border) EU and non EU could enter Ireland and go up North and disperse to wherever in UK. No Border as Martina suggests would facilitate that.

The UK will need to man its own borders to stop that leakage from Ireland.

The free movement under CTA I agree with. Not sure how they will know who CTA travellers are though! But it seems to work very well in UK airports. Not sure about land borders, too big to monitor maybe?

It is a UK problem from that perspective anyway isn't it? Despite Martina's suggestion. It is not an Irish problem, it is a UK problem. Well since immigration was a great big plank in the Brexit story anyway!

In order to control that, the only land border with the EU is in Ireland. Up until now, there was free travel between Ireland and NI. So, what are they going to do? Put a border up again and potentially cause havoc?

If they had a sea border though, it could work as I doubt you'd have millions flocking to NI? Only that the DUP are bloody stubborn as mules.

And that would mean NI staying in the single market and CU, so Scotland would.also kick up a drink as they weren't getting the same special treatment. Plus UKGov has absolutely ruled out any internal UK borders.

One would love to think that a border would cause no problems in Ireland, but you'd be a little naïve to think it.

I was thinking more in terms of free movement of people rather than trade. I certainly haven't an answer!

I was thinking more in terms of free movement of people rather than trade

Not going.to happen. The EU has made it very clear that the 4 freedoms are indivisible.

Hmmm. Well if they're going to be that stubborn then, they're going to have to face the consequences. And Ireland, though small, has a lot of say too.
I really haven't followed the political debates on this. I tend to switch off!

just have a visa system to enter UK unless you have an Irish passport, in which case no visa needed

Ireland really is a pain in the backside for the EU. They'd be happy if Ireland left along with the UK. Solve all their problems. Particularly Ireland's corporate tax rate.

Needs border checks on the UK/NI side for that Martina. Ireland won't care who leaves.

What was it you said again about no border.

Yes Martina, I could see that working. But certain factions are opposed to the notion.

Whoyagonna,

I think Ireland is great! EU member so has to be in the club and be supported by the other members.

I'm not sure how it will all pan out, but something will be sorted. Has to be.

I could see it working if you're Irish travelling North/South. Remember a lot of people commute to work from Belfast to Dublin daily. What a pain in the ass it would be to have to have your passport checked at a border?