Any threads on the embryo case?

[Quootiepie]

Just wondering, as I think the decision is today...

IMO it's only because she's a woman that people feel so strongly about this. if it was the other way round and howard Johnston wanted the embrios because he was infertile, people would be saying that they are the woman's eggs and no-one has the right to force her to essentially be the mother of a child she didn't want.

how would you honestly think if that were the case and the situation was the other way round?

Also frozen embryos last for years. Does anyone think that even if you have IVF together and have a child together, if you subsequently divorce, your ex should be allowed to use all those embryos and potentially have six of your children long after your relationship has ended? Would you be so keen if it was your husband being forced into this.
They entered into a contract. The law could not ethically rewrite it.
I do feel very sorry for her. She has pinned all her hopes on this tiny chance for so long and it must have taken over her life completely. But I feel sorry for him too. He has been pushed into the spotlight and he clearly hates it, he has also had this hanging over him for years and I feel very sorry for his new partner, if he has one. Must have been a nightmare.

I've seen my huge blokey husband cry and cry because he faced the prospect of not being allowed to see his daughter with his ex. Why do people think this man would find it so easy never to see his own child?

I would never, ever be an egg donor. I couldn't bear the thought that my child was out there somewhere and I couldn't be with them. It would be torture for me.

Sobernow, would you really want your child raised by someone you don't even like? I find that really odd tbh.

lucie embrios cannot be kept indefinitely - they have to be destroyed after 5 years anyway I think it is due to the fact the quality reduces after that time. If I remember rightly there was a protest somewhere recently outside a clinic over the destruction of embrios that had gone past that time period.

and it was made very clear to both of them. they both were aware they had to consent to the treatment, and they both were aware that they had to consent to the transfer of embrios, so Natallie evans knew that Howard Johnston had the right to withdraw his consent when the relationship broke down.

and how would you honestly feel if someone took your biological child and gave it to another woman to carry/bring up? how would you feel knowing you had a child out there that the man you possibly could no longer stand had forced you to be the mother of?

I really don't know where I stand with this anymore....my gut tells me, it's a wrong and hateful decision, and awfukl for the woman, and well, afterall he was willing to have those embryos created with her, etc....so, I believe in a way that was his consent...ont he other hand it would be wrong to force him to be a father if he doesn't want to be one...especially as he could be made to pay, etc...so wouldn't be fair in that sense...!

I am glad I didn't have to be the judge to make that decision!
On an emotional level, I am defiantely on teh womans side, though, and am just really sorry for her, to have her only chance blown of a biological child....and I know, I know, apparently it can be just as lovely and you can have the same bond with a child that isn't biologically yours...but personally, I can't imagine that, but that is just my personal feling on this...I have nothing other then admiration for people who adopt and give a child, that otherwise probably would have had a terible life the love and home they need, I just feel it wouldn't be for me, iykwim.

Just one query. Her case was brought under the "right to family life" part of the European Convention on Human Rights. Does anyone know if "right to family life" is usually interpreted as right to a biological child.

Also, I just read that the couple split in 2001. That's six long years of fighting this case. She could have a child by now if she'd followed another path.

Sobernow but it wouldn't be in your past, that child might come to find you in the future, when it was old enough. and what if that ex was violent, beat you up, threatened you, and you split because of that, would you still feel unfit to judge his suitability? really it's not that black and white.

also how would you feel about your current partner being forced to father a child with his ex?

Sobernow, by 'child' I meant any born, living child - the result of a possibly pregnancy. I do not think a frozen embryo is a child. I don't think my eggs are children (poor shrivelled things they are these days anyway, probably!) but if my eggs were fertilised, I got pregnant and had a baby, that would be a child - my child!

But I couldn't NOT be a parent to my biological child. It would be a daily torture to me (really, it would) to know I had a child and not to be able to be with that child.

But surely they didn't get 'that far down the road', they simply had to make a decision about what might be possible in the future earlier in their relationship than most of us - cos of the illness

but he may be unfit to be a father. you may have once thought him fit to be a father, and you may have had treatment to hopefully conceive a child in the future. and then it may have become apparent that he was unfit and you might leave him. and what then of those potential children?

I'm with aloha, I could not live knowing that I had a biological child out there - it would almost feel like having given it away.

I think you are very unusual in that tbh. I would be appalled if dh's ex wanted to carry on having his kids. And he would find it absolutely traumatising. And if one of my exes wanted to have my kids with a new partner, that would just be freaky and obscene to me. Horrific. Once the relationship is over, it is right and fair that you don't conceive more kids together.

I've already said I think it was the right decision, but I think most people are focusingon the adults - what about the potential children? "Daddy didn't want you, but I forced him" - nice!

Good point skibump.

yes I had mentioned the potential children further down the thread, esp considering they would almost certainly appear in the media spotlight at some point, so it would be apparent ho they were and how they came to be, to all who knew them.

I don't think wanting to love and care for and nurture your children is quite the same as 'making possessions'!
I think most of us agree that it is normal and healthy to want to be a proper loving parent to children and to have them in a loving relationship. And more is not always better!

and what would you say to it if it chose to find you in the future? "well I didn't consider you to be a child which is why I was happy for your father to go ahead and use the embrio to conceive you".

Yes, sorry wanna, I had read the thread, but couldn't remember who had made that point - it did seem to get a bit lost though!