Charlie Gard (16) Future implications arising from case

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

If anyone wants to post, perhaps we could consider what implications today's case might have for others in future ... ?

They need to just let the poor little boy go. They've lost sight of him. I understand wanting to bring him home but it's not for him, it's for them. All this time in court rather than spending his last days with him.

I can absolutely see why they want him home. They want something they have never had. They want something nice to remember. A fantasy of what his life has been and what it could be.
It's so terribly sad.

So very undignified, all of today is.

The judge must be raging at the unnecessary drama and delaying tactics.

Francis J you need to put your foot down now.

But he is so kind and considerate he may allow it to drag on again.

I agree with you WeeWitch

There is not going to be any medical professionals who will be willing to go to their home. That's not GOSH putting obstacles in the way, it's just a fact that the level of bile and hatred in the case has brought up.

If they take him home and then refuse to allow the portable ventilator to be turned off, or refuse entry to medics (if any are willing to go) to prolong his life then GOSH are the ones who've failed in their duty of care to their patient.

When we took my terminally ill relative home it was made very, very clear that she was still the patient of the hospital and they were in charge of her care, as they should be. They just trusted us to let them do what needed to be done. The trust that Charlie's parents don't have in GOSH will also be trust that GOSH don't have in them.

*officeshoes

nina people have been very measured on most of the threads but this is getting beyond ridiculous now and I have much sympathy for the parents.*

Yes. It is all well and good to pontificate from the sidelines but no one here is in their position.

They need to say enough is enough now. It's awful for his parents but they shouldn't be the focus. They need to do what's best for Charlie. GOSH is his home. He doesn't need to be transported. He just needs peace.

I work in picu and have done picu retrievals , including taking children home to be extubated at home. It can be done, but usually the extubation happens within a few hours of arriving home, that is what is discussed and what the family agree to. There is no way you would allow it to continue on for days, not to mention the added bonus of CA supporters camping outside the house or sending you hate mails and death threats
At what point would they pull the tube? You would be in their home surrounded by their family and its obvious that they have not accepted it. The situation could become very tense and heated. I would never in a million years put myself in that situation and I cant imagine many other nursing and medical staff who would.

Incidentally I have been involved in a few hospice transfers and they are wonderful. The staff are fantastic and usually allow the family to stay for a few days, help with funeral arrangements and generally cosset and protect the family, allowing them time to say goodbye and be with their child. but again, it would need to be kept totally private for other patients and families sake and I wouldn't trust C&C to do that.

So the parents have got a care expert to try and get Charlie brought home because GOSH don't think it is possible. Surely both parties should have spoken before now?

Ellie

I suspect you are right

He does appear to have been incredibly kind and compassionate in all of this (Judge F), what an awful case to have had to made a judgement on in the first place. And thankfully a rare one. I'm very glad to not have such a responsibility on my shoulders.

All this time in court rather than spending his last days with him. sad

Precisely. I'm aghast that the mother thinks this is the way to spend her child's last days on this earth.

"Francis J"? Is he a friend of yours?

Really, some people should step back...

Nina you clearly have not followed all the threads, there have been many posters on here who absolutely HAVE been in their position,. I suggest you go back and have a read. That's why these threads have been so informative and at times heart rending.

People keep on asking why CY was able to do things in court and GOSH wasn't able to. It's because in its latter stages this legal case has largely been about steering through a PR minefield in a way which would give the clear message that the court and GOSH had bent over backwards to accommodate the parents requests.

GOSH could have done things in court to respond to CY's statement or to make their own but that would have been a very bad idea. Imagine if the GOSH barrister had objected to CY making the statement? It would have looked utterly awful. Much of what GOSH has done is to avoid exercising its rights in court beyond those specifically needed to get the desired outcome of switching off life support.

GOSH has had to play this as a PR exercise and as a political game. It's unfortunate but it became much more than about the court case quite a while ago.

The thing that worries me now is that the parents are now making the most reasonable request, let our child die at home, which cannot be granted which might give out the message "at the very end of everything, GOSH wouldn't even grant that one last small mercy".

nina2b - I agree that no-one here is currently in their position, but there is a lot of expertise here from HCPs, lawyers and most importantly, people who have been in their position and their knowledge and understanding of the ins and outs of palliative care and withdrawal of life-support is not to be dismissed. People have taken time to explore the subjects raised and discussion has been very thought-provoking and mature. If you don't like the subjects discussed, I suggest that you step away and report if you feel necessary,

@JoshuaRozenberg

Gard: court adjourned again while that conversation takes place.

I cannot keep my mind off the fact that yesterday, I think, they confirmed that doctors had been able to elicit pain responses. That's the bottom line isn't it? well, it is for me. I could not allow my child to experience pain when that is all that he/she could feel, and no hope of anything else. My sympathy for the parents has just about run out... yes of course I still feel for them, but honest to god, just stop now for Charlie's sake.

@skyfieldnewsed‏ @skyrobcatherall 3m
Now disagreement between family's legal team and barrister for Charlie's guardian over events during the adjournment

I wonder if Armstrong is going to be firmer with them, at what point will this case damage the reputation of the legal team as well as GOSH?

Enough now, Charlie needs to come first and the hangers on need to stop encouraging this.

nauticant

I agree

Any input GOSH continues to have will be criticised, even if this request is granted. They seem to want the legal system to step in like a parent and sort it all out, sort out those GOSH Meanies.

Ignore trouble makers...

Nina, Francis J is a correct way to refer to the Judge (lawyer here).

Events during adjournment? Wtf?