Charlie Gard 14

[GabsAlot]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

I have just looked back over the court judgements. I was incorrect. At the first hearing barristers were pro bono but from the same chambers as the GOSH barrister. My guess would be that the parents did not want to go to appeal with a barrister from the same chambers as the GOSH barrister.
The parents barrister was praised for her work in the April hearing.

It appears they switched to another chambers for the Court of Appeal and again the team was headed by a QC (Mr Gordon) with Grant Armstrong as one of the juniors. He has continued to act in the current case but he is certainly not a last minute appointment and has been through the Court of Appeal and Supreme Court so knows the case well. When I use the term junior, Grant Anderson has a wealth of experience and junior just means he is not a QC. In high level complex cases it is not unusual for a chembers to act for two parties without compromise.

I was just reading KG's website. She seems
To represent both trusts & patients & has won cases for patients who suffered negligence.
And yet she has been portrayed as 'evil' & 'part of the establishment' etc- She seems pretty Impressive & hopefully is a tough cookie.

I've just found a prayer/tribute to Charlie on Insta. It's one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

instagram.com/p/BWn8rJ3FRdW/

And with that I'm off to bed. Night Thread 14erz.

Any QC or junior doing this sort of work is tough. All barristers taking on these cases are self employed. If they work pro bono , they do it for free because it is important for people to have representation in court. Clearly C and C could not have represented themselves and it would not have been good enough to have an unqualified advocate. These are available but not free.

MontyPython thank you for that link.
There has been a lot of criticisms of pro-lifers on here (some of it for good reason), but that article articulated what I couldn't.
My late DM was a strict Catholic, and a pro-lifer, but she never agreed that heroic efforts should be made in situations like this.

I veer towards feeling sympathy for C&C and not doing so.
I do feel they have set in motion something they cannot control and something they almost probably have no understanding of.
So yes I do most definitely blame UKIP, Trump, at least some posters in CA, and the religious loonies for taking advantage of them at such a very, very difficult time in their lives.
I can only hope it is resolved for them in the best way possible and most of all of course for the poor baby at the heart of this who so often seems to be forgotten.

The fact of being a tough cookie doesn't sanction the revoltingly graphic threats against her, such as that she should be hit in the face with a hammer. Only the most depraved of people would write that - it's truly disgusting.

The judge will not be forgetting his duty towards Charlie tomorrow. You can be assured of that, smiling.

Agreed, goodbye. No threats are acceptable. To anyone. In whatever position they work.

bubbles - my point remains that is not up to a barrister to provide day to day strategic advice and assistance. That is the role of a solicitor. I do believe that if legal aid had been granted at an early stage and C&C had been able to build up a relationship with a solicitor of their choice (not whomever would take the matter pro bono when relationships between the family and the medics had already been very compromised), the matter might not even have reached court

My understanding re: GA was that it was not absolutely clear that he would appear in respect of this current hearing - that is what I meant by "11th hour" but I accept my post was misleading

What is clear is that further tremendous stress will be being caused by the litigation. Not helped by the fact that C&C will never be quite sure who will be acting for them in court/who has time to speak to them outwith hearings etc.

@goodbyestranger

The fact of being a tough cookie doesn't sanction the revoltingly graphic threats against her, such as that she should be hit in the face with a hammer

Ofcourse not. But I read up thread she works for herself & probably will have no one to filter to her emails etc - I just was hoping she doesn't get too upset by all the name calling & ofcourse report any threats to police as appropriate.

Thank you everyone for wise words, some excellent links, others like dm definitely not excellent and others frankly bizarre, and to sos for the music.
Goodnight.

Bindmans acted for them in the first place. Replaced by Da Silva I think. They have had the services of QCs. I just don't think they ever believed GOSH were acting in the best interests of Charlie so I doubt anyone could have found a resolution. There are also skilled mediators available.

These solicitors and barristers are not back numbers. They are good experienced people and have been praised for their work. However Legal Aid should have been available and that is agreed by everyone.

Well, all I know is that C&C have been under a strain that I cannot even imagine. Add to that the horrible publicity generated by this case and it's no wonder neither of them is thinking straight. Yes, I know they asked for some of this publicity, but it's snowballed all out of their control taking them and any common sense with it.

I can't find any anger towards them at all. Frustration, yes. But mostly just pity and sorrow. When this is all over they are going to be facing an emptiness much greater than simply the loss of a child.

I would like to thank everyone for the very helpful posts which have helped me to understand this very complex and sad case.

A thought re the refusal of counseling - we were offered counseling at various points when we were undergoing fertility investigation and treatment. My husband and I decided that we would pursue this only once we had reached a point when we wouldn't have any more treatment. We felt (wrongly or rightly) that counseling would feel like admitting defeat so until we did admit defeat we didn't want to pursue it. C & C may have felt similarly - that counseling would be to help them come to terms with loss and as they don't accept that they are facing loss they wouldn't see the need fir counseling.

One hopes, for the sake of Charlie, a fair judgment towards is given on tuesday.
One hopes the poor child is not subjected to further appeals..not fair on Charlie or the staff caring for him who must be suffering emotionally too.

Good morning to all. Today all our thoughts are with Charlie and his family and Judge Francis who will have to make a decision in the next couple of days, an extremely difficult and heart wrenching judgement, but one that will be the very best for Charlie.
I would like to thank all the staff at GOSH for their dedication and dignity throughout these terrible times. I would like to thank all people on this thread for their contributions to one of the hardest and emotional subjects I have ever discussed. I thank you all for sticking to facts, being restrained and thoughtful towards all people involved in this case and which I hope will continue till the end. It really has been a pleasure and a privilege to be part of this thread.
As today unfolds and our hearts are heavy let's turn to each other and embrace our humanity and reach out to the devastated parents with understanding and sympathy in a situation where there are no winners.
Thank you all again and may you all have peace and tranquility. To Charlie I say may your suffering be at a close and peace be yours. Xxxxxxxx

Well put Sostenueto.