Charlie Gard 14

[GabsAlot]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

Come on people, hold together. We all get emotional at times, me included. We can keep going in a civil manner. It is a bit regurgitating stuff at the minute so have a break if you are getting g wound up and come back tomorrow. I have a hormonal teenage gdd who stays with me a lot and when she gets stressed I just leave the room and come back a little bit later. That way we avoid saying horrible things to each other. We are all lovely, reasonable and intelligent people on here and all are most welcome so come on group hug and carry on.

These are obviously just observations but I think C&C (rightly or wrongly) feel very badly let down by GOSH re: the seizures. I suspect whether they were reasonably forseeable will be the subject of personal injury litigation.

I think their views are very entrenched and it is difficult for them to trust any professional advisors. Unfortunately they have also been surrounded by loonies like UKIP man and the pastor etc who will not have helped those relationships as it's not in their interests

I agree with Lello. There's a distinct danger that people automatically assume that the parents have the worst motives. For instance, it's been suggested upthread that the worst they have suffered is hurtful comments. Setting aside the fact that it's an outrage that any further pain has been imposed on them, I can well believe that they have received stuff that is much more than "hurtful". There are unfortunately all too many twisted individuals out there who batten on the relatives of sick children and think it's clever to send utterly vile comments and messages, and it would be extraordinary if they've kept away from C&C.

I thought they sacked their first legal team?

Agree with maryz.

Maryz post I mean lol! Cross posted ! And thanks maryz.

Well am off now. Please keep things nice and civil so we can all come back tomorrow. Peace to all. Prayers and my thoughts to Charlie, little cherub, and his parents.

Just saw this on Daily Mail- And presume by 'TODAY' they mean tomorrow.
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4723092/amp/Charlie-Gard-s-fate-decided-TODAY.html

If this is true, it sounds like judge will rule tomorrow.
Considering the reports from Friday's meeting saying the scan made a sad reading & also the experts agreed on a lot of things, softening of tone from parents towards GOSH today I have a feeling maybe all parties are in some kind of agreement now.

It's understandable people feel attacked.

There is a group of posters that can state their opinions openly, express support and sympathy that they feel for C&C. At times it's stated as an absolute collective feeling, "Of course" "Naturally", as if there couldn't be any other opinion.

The fact is that there is also a group of posters that don't hold these views, who would like to express criticism and an alternate view, who can't. They can't put their argument, discuss their viewpoint. It's quite frustrating. I would move on but the other aspects of discussion are fascinating, so I won't.

I think the best thing would be not to 'scold' those who aren't whole-heartedly jumping on parental sancti-solidarity bandwagon - and yes, this is happening - and unless they are breaking mumsnet guidelines, leave them be.

I think C and C's preoccupation is Charlie and their perceived fight on his behalf. They are hurting and are fearful of the future. The problem with social media is that anonymity brings out the basest of behaviour. You only have to look at comments on online newspapers and articles, such bile and hatred is expressed. Those expressing such beliefs think they have the right to write whatever they want be it racism, misogyny or other kinds of nasty views. Freedom of speech should be accompanied by responsibility. I really do believe there is the rise of stupid in this country at the moment which is facilitated by social media and the internet. Sorry, rant over.

Even the Judge said it was disgraceful that C&C did not get legal aid.
According to Sky News GOSH have also said that it is wrong that C&C are also getting threats against them.
Writerwannabe - you posts are wonderful and very compassionate.

One last thing if you would all indulge me. Listen to this piece if music with your eyes closed and think of Charlie. It isn't a long piece but a few moments will bring you all peace.

DM also have CG's timeline heading changed to 'Little boys year of Torment'
That is hurtful.

Its a different piece to what I posted the other day.

KG is a self-employed barrister but her chambers will probably have the clerks opening and checking mail. They'll weed out anything unpleasant and keep in case it's needed

What will be harder is the fact that no doubt her email inbox is constantly filling up with drivel

Seconded BGB, absolutely. Very depressing.

I don't think anyone is above criticism, probably under any circumstances, (but I'd need to think a bit more about that before deciding), but I think one can be sensitive and understanding and sympathetic, and it behoves one to be tolerant and patient. None of us are perfect, and luckily here there are people who will help us apply brakes when we fall from that.

CG's parents are under intolerable strain, and have been for a very long time. I feel the utmost sympathy for them, especially as they are not surrounded by people who will help apply brakes or reality checks and the things that people in the middle of a shit storm actually need.

I hope that doesn't cross the guidelines here, or MN specific instructions for this thread. I can absolutely assure everyone that I feel so sad for them and their poor baby.

i think that dm artcle is just spculating i dont think judge will decide tomorrow he might just need time to read the reports

This is an article on an explicitly Catholic website which actually takes much the same stance as most of these threads: cruxnow.com/commentary/2017/07/06/doctors-courts-not-enemy-charlie-gard-case/

This piece of music is most appropriate now with latest news if it is to be believed.