Charlie Gard 14

[GabsAlot]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

Didnt one of the grandads post himself singing lyrics say the hospital were trying to kill Charlie.

Acrossthepond the parents were offered counselling a t the beginning but apparently they refused all help.

I didn't see the original post myself, it was posted on the comments of the latest statement by GOSH on their Facebook page. Thought I best screenshot it in case it gets deleted from there.

Believe so 11122aa. Its no good looking at c&cs family to give them the right support that they need at the moment. Seems to me they are the ones causing all the hassle. I feel even more sorry for c&c as I think they have been pushed into a corner as said several threads back and even if they wanted to accept the inevitable they can't because of their so called supporters and relatives.

Connie's mother shares CA stuff and seems on the same page as the rest of them. Chris's siblings are both pretty vocal against GOSH, his brother posted that their corruption and lies will be exposed. Not sure about the paternal GPs.

That post is terrible. Why did they think they have the right to do that?

I hope that if the decision is made to turn off the L.S then the CA FB Page will but closed down because I can't imagine anything they will say will be supportive. If the Judge rules that L.S be turned off I don't think CA's no doubt angry, hatred filled postings will be of any help to C&C

What C&C will need to hear is that the best decision for Charlie was made and that allowing him to pass away peacefully is the kindest thing to do but I can't see the CA doing that.

Those poor parents, the whole thing is incredibly heartbreaking. I'm going to be so upset for them if this doesn't go their way even though it's the right thing for Charlie

In a world where everybody thinks they have a right for this, that and the other its no surprise thefairycaravan.

I did see that thread originally on Facebook. At the time I misread it and thought it was giving thanks and then I realised that was in no way it's motive

Surely if there is any profit going to help Charlie and his family, then that's a positive thing?
Or is it just not worth the effort if it's not high amounts?

I must say I don't know where the info about the parents refusing counselling has come from. It's not that it doesn't sound plausible but I'm not sure what the source is.

Likewise the idea that the treatment might if successful result in reduced pressures on the ventilator was something I made up as an example. I haven't even read Dr Hirano's paper (I'm not sure whether he has published it). He gave examples of people coming off ventilators, but without any info about whether they were adults or children, or how long they had been ill, or their co-morbidities.

It is so hard to keep track of verifiable truth in this case, or even who has said what.

Devastated the parents will no doubt be. I worry about the aftermath for them. I hope they will comfort each other and stick together. All too often the strain of horrendous tragedies can split couples up. I really hope this doesn't happen and that they accept much needed counselling to help them both. They have fought bravely and no one can doubt their love for Charlie. I don't agree with a lot of their choices but you never know what you would do in those circumstances. Everyone is different and reacts differently. There are a lot who have lost children, including me, on here. A lot with disabled children and nothing is fiercer than a parents love.

I have to admit that whilst my sympathy for them was huge at the beginning, it's starting to wane.

You cannot behave as they are. It's just not on and to people who have cared for your child for the last year is just disgusting.

As I say, I completely feel for them and little Charlie and genuinely wish there was hope for him. But their behaviour has become unacceptable.

I agree with what ur saying Logical but probably best to redact the email address...

Well annadale someone put it on another thread with proof I believe I'm just repeating it.

OK can we keep to the guidelines so we don't have the thread deleted please. No slagging off the parents, you may not agree with how they have acted or decisions they have made but we want this thread to remain open. Please read from the beginning of this thread and the latter half of thread 13.

YES. Please dont let this get deleted.

GOSH have been amazingly dignified through all this & always been so consoderate & supportful of the parents. Their today's Facebook comment is again very supportive.
It's first time I have read any supportive comments towards GOSH from the family's new spokeswoman (or was it an old one they have gone back to now that they have had differences with the UKIP guy?). As per the report Dad CG has actually acknowledged 'if not for GOSH our son wouldn't even be alive'. CY's statement is mainly been about the upsetting & hurtful comments on news stories after GOSH released its statement- she is often commenting on these and sadly gets trolled.

Re the argument about children's rights vs parent's rights, I posted several threads back about so called 'spiritual healing' laws that several states have in the US. Basically, in order to receive federal funding they had to implement religious exemptions to child neglect and child abuse laws.

This article makes shocking reading:

www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/05/religious_exemptions_from_medical_care_faith_healing_kills_children.html

Are we not allowed to post screenshots anymore??

Delurking to say how interesting and informative these threads are. I feel great sympathy with the parents. I think it's clear their cause has been hijacked by political and religious interests who are making things even harder for them.

I hope that the judge can reach a decision quickly and that Charlie will not have to suffer for much longer.

Are we not allowed to post screenshots anymore??

I'm not sure, MNHQ have been vague about what we can and can't do.

My opinion though was that if it's in the public eye anyway then why can't we screenshot it as we aren't showing anything that people couldn't access themselves anyway.

Think mnhq got to be careful as police are now involved because of all the threats against gosh. So we, too need to be careful and besides a lot of people thought that ca posts detracted from discussions. Only stating what others have. X