Charlie Gard 10

[user1498911470]

Hi guys new thread.

Let's try to keep this one as sensible and measured as the past 7 threads have been.

Please note the MNHQ comment on thread number 7.

"Hi everyone,

..... We had to remove several parent-blaming posts, so we'd like to ask folk not to do this. We think we can all agree that this is a truly awful time for all involved and we just wouldn't wish it on anyone. If there's anything we could do with more of, it's support. We'll continue to remove reported posts that break TGs (if we've missed something, do feel free to let us know).

If we have to make too many deletions, we will need to look at removing the thread; which is the last thing we wish to do.

Thanks all"

Starting now as 9 will fill up quickly.

Ok. Well I think as long as it is in AIBU, we will have people popping up to tell us yes we are and it will derail things. When i first started the threads i had no idea it would develop into 10 threads. So, I'll see with MN if we can have it moved to In the News. Hope that is OK. I guess people will still be able to find it OK?

You've birthed a phenomenon @LovelyBath77

I think most people are following the links from one thread to the next, so interested people will find it and it will still pop up in active.

Good idea LovelyBath. The "Grenfell Tower" threads have been in the "In The News" section and from what I've seen stayed largely conflict free.

I had a quick look and there doesn't seem to be a thread on In the News about the case. So have reported the thread to MN to see what they think about moving it. hope this is OK.

I think in the news is a pretty apt forum for this discussion to continue.

Great idea to have it moved.

I don't have a problem with feeling and expressing gratitude to healthcare professionals. Possibly because I have neither the brains, the stamina nor sufficient caring capacity to be one. So I am truly grateful that there are plenty of people who do. I'm always shocked by those who appear to take this totally for granted and even despise the staff looking after them.

Lovely - I think In the news is a good idea.

@umpteenthnamechange, very interesting post! I am going to be doing a module on language and discourse as part of my degree, and find online discourses fascinating. I find local community groups on Facebook equally as fascinating, especially regarding moral panics and the like. I have often fantasised about carrying out research on populist newspaper comment sections and Facebook comments. Charlie's Army and the recent Corrie McKeague group have some similarities and demographics which I find interesting.

With regards dissenting voices using GOSH, are the beds there purely used for specialist referrals from other hospitals? Or do they have 'general beds' for routine ENT etc that are used to treat non specialist cases of local kids?

In future cases I would like to see a much faster process of judicial review-mediation-evidence so if there was an agenda to avoid the inevitable it would be circumvented by a much faster process

I think it seems the judge was arguing for this too, in terms of more mediation at an early stage anyway, in his written response to the earlier hearing.

I think he tried, didn't he, by getting the GOSH consultant to confer privately with the US doctor before the first hearing (and they had previously conferred when the treatment was first proposed). The doctors were in agreement then that Charlie wouldn't benefit from the treatment, but the parents wouldn't accept it.

It must be very difficult for scientists, doctors and lawyers, who are accustomed to dealing with evidence, to work with people who absolutely reject evidence-based argument. How do you get through to them, if they won't accept the evidence?

Great idea re getting the thread moved, I hadn't realised it was in AIBU as I picked it up from active threads but In The News seems the best place for it.

Lello I'm not sure about GOSH and I'd be interested to know. I know from our experience that BCH treats both rare diseases and local children with regular conditions as DS has had both treatment for a rare cancer there and his grommets put in.

Re the expression of gratitude. I say thank you - and mean it - to all kinds of odd bods, postpeople, waiters, etc, and if they've been particularly kind and gone the extra mile - carried a large parcel, cared that my meal wasn't quite right, I am truly grateful. The idea that one can't be grateful to people who open their hearts to (as I'm sure they do) and care for profoundly sick children and their families is, IMHO, bonkers.

Western says CA is a fascinating study of what happens when populism meets social media.
Exactly.
I believe this is the way we are viewing them. As an example of how people and their viewpoints can be swayed and influenced by such rhetoric.
We are not performing a witch hunt or quoting them to prove how superior we are.
But if we are truly shocked and horrified by their comments then surely we have a right to quote and discuss them.
This thread is a voice of reason in a rapidly unfolding circus which often seems to forget that at the heart of it is a very sick baby.

Also, I agree with moving it to In the News to avoid being called out on discussing these issues.

Yes to putting this thread in the News section. Much more appropriate.

DarthMaiden me too, why are we bothering?

Because other people are reading the tweets and might become more informed?

Ok well hopefully MN will move it over.

Well hopefully in future it might mean that instead of going the way this case has, medication helps things at an earlier stage. Rather than bringing an influx of such cases being dragged through the media and courts. That may be something good which can come out of it.

mediation, not medication!

sashh,that is why I am posting my ass off on Facebook, so people are not getting a one sided story.

Great idea to move the thread to news.

If having that period of mediation overseen by an independent ethics person as is now being done happened at the very beginning the parents then would have had no grounds to repeatedly bring the case back to court

In theory that would be an ideal way forward, and the judge commented with something similar. In practice, considering GOSH only treat children which means working with parents for every single case, I would be surprised if multiple and many mediative approaches were tried before GOSH had to let this go to a legal situation. They would have held off from that until they had no other option as once that was begun their relationship with the family would be unsalvageable. They are experts in working with parents, will work all day and every day with extremely challenging family situations, and this one alone has got totally out of control. That could suggest that they are working with an exceptionally difficult family even by their standards.

With the statement from the family spokesperson yesterday and the gleeful touting of 'there's going to be fireworks, we've found dirt on the Guardian's QC!' from family friend Catherine Whatzit and family run and moderated CA - surely there has to be a point at which this behaviour outside the court room has to be acknowledged and challenged? It's blatantly attempting to influence the judicial process, and surely is technical contempt of court?

While the judge is clearly deeply compassionate for the parents and has bent over backwards to try and make this as easy as possible for them, the precedent this behaviour sets for future cases is a huge one.

• would be surprised if multiple and many mediative approaches were NOT tried before

Hey Sonsenueto, don't leave, you've been an active contributor here for a while and have found your posts insightful.

Oh the subject of GOSH, I agree they are a great hospital and we are lucky to have the NHS etc, but I did notice when i had a quick look at the NHS reviews online for the hospital there were a few comments about how communication could be improved with parents. I'll try and find a link. Maybe it's something which could be worked on. Possibly. I know people tend to leave reviews when they feel strongly, however, so may be not a true picture. I'll try find a link for you.

www.nhs.uk/Services/hospitals/ReviewsAndRatings/DefaultView.aspx?id=1097