Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
News

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Charlie Gard 10

999 replies

user1498911470 · 15/07/2017 23:26

Hi guys new thread.

Let's try to keep this one as sensible and measured as the past 7 threads have been.

Please note the MNHQ comment on thread number 7.

"Hi everyone,

..... We had to remove several parent-blaming posts, so we'd like to ask folk not to do this. We think we can all agree that this is a truly awful time for all involved and we just wouldn't wish it on anyone. If there's anything we could do with more of, it's support. We'll continue to remove reported posts that break TGs (if we've missed something, do feel free to let us know).

If we have to make too many deletions, we will need to look at removing the thread; which is the last thing we wish to do.

Thanks all"

Starting now as 9 will fill up quickly.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
CaveMum · 16/07/2017 10:37

The problem with mediation is that it will drag everything out even longer. Poor Charlie will continue with his poor quality of life, quite possibly in pain Sad

muckypup73 · 16/07/2017 10:41

Oh my, Laura gard responded to one of my posts on the Dail Fail, she reckons the family have been getting hate mail, not sure I belive that though.

rabbitnothare · 16/07/2017 10:43

I don't believe that either, I think they are trying to detract from the behaviour of CA and her tactic support of their threats by not deleting them.

Ceto · 16/07/2017 10:43

It does seem to me really bad manners to steam in to a discussion with an accusation that these are threads "all basically rehashing the same things over and over again" . It demonstrates that (a) you haven't read them, and (b) you can't have been paying much attention to the background facts, otherwise you would realise that the threads are likely to have been reacting to the rapid developments there have been in the case including two long and complex court hearings.

Ellie56 · 16/07/2017 10:43

Well hopefully all will be resolved one way or the other on 25th July. I have every faith that Mr Justice Francis will do the right thing for Charlie.

Ceto · 16/07/2017 10:44

I think mediation would inevitably drag things out longer. Think about all the wrangling over who the mediator should be, finding a date, decisions about who each side can bring etc etc.

Saucery · 16/07/2017 10:45

Oh, I know, CaveMum, that's why I am against it now in this case. It achieves the goal, which I'm sure is unintentional, of prolonging his suffering which his parents deny is even happening.
In future cases I would like to see a much faster process of judicial review-mediation-evidence so if there was an agenda to avoid the inevitable it would be circumvented by a much faster process. Of course, absolutely all evidence and proposed treatment would have to be permitted. Faster wouldn't mean cutting corners.

Saucery · 16/07/2017 10:47

muckypup, it could be true. There are intemperate idiots on both sides of this. Naturally she will have passed any such communication to the police.

zeezeek · 16/07/2017 10:49

As I understand it there was discomfort about the idea of a moral obligation on patients to feel gratitude and agreement that patients needn't feel gratitude to individual hcp.

Things have probably moved on from this - haven't started reading the new thread yet. Having worked with a lot of HCP over the last 25 odd years I think that whilst they do not except patients and family to show gratitude - someone taking the time to just say thank you when they have gone above and beyond is lovely.

What they should not expect, or put up with, however is the relentless abuse and threats that GOSH staff have endured in the last few weeks.

LovelyBath77 · 16/07/2017 10:49

Hi just catching up on the thread.

Just a thought, we are in AIBU so will probably have people popping up and saying the thread is unreasonable. So maybe is an idea to get the thread moved elsewhere if that is a problem? Not sure which area might be suitable though.

I think when i started post one the AIBU was around the 'supporters' not exactly helping this case. Something like that anyway.

Does anyone know, if the family agreed to the scans or not? I read they needed to do do quickly, due to other children needing scans too. I think this will have a lot of influence on how the medics can decide to proceed tomorrow.

LovelyBath77 · 16/07/2017 10:52

There are areas in MN for Ethical Dilemmas, also In the News. However I can see AIBU is a popular area also. It is quite a sensitive issue. Any thoughts welcome.

0nline · 16/07/2017 10:54

she reckons the family have been getting hate mail, not sure I belive that tho

It is possible, maybe even probable.

-Some people who perceive themselves as supporters may feel they are "helping" by evening things up on the hate mail score. So by making it the family too, in the perpetrator's mind they are creating a scenario whereby it's not just GOSH getting it, it's not one sided, so both sides are as bad as each other and the original raised legal eyebrow over threats and horrible communications is now neutralised.

-Pure trolls do not discriminate. They troll everybody and anybody they can get a reaction from.

-Being in favour of GOSH's position is no vaccination against the motivations and behavoirs associated with Social Media Outrage(d) Groups. People can take the opposite view of the case that CA does, and still have zero immunity to replicating some of the worst excesses seen there.

Never underestimate the human potential to be shitty if feeling all dander up and justified (via some very athletic and bendy rationalisation)

LovelyBath77 · 16/07/2017 10:54

In future cases I would like to see a much faster process of judicial review-mediation-evidence so if there was an agenda to avoid the inevitable it would be circumvented by a much faster process

I think it seems the judge was arguing for this too, in terms of more mediation at an early stage anyway, in his written response to the earlier hearing. Hopefully things may move more in that direction for other cases. Not sure though.

LovelyBath77 · 16/07/2017 10:56

It is interesting how CA view any others as 'trolls' who do not agree with them. I have also seen this happen in another FB group who were all about a miracle cure, who also sold things and promoted the (expensive, unproven) treatment. Anyone who questioned them were called 'trolls' and blocked. as well.

NatashaGurdin · 16/07/2017 10:56

SerfTerf
I can't remember who posted that, but wasn't the point that private healthcare is unaffordable to MOST now? I think it was regarding NI contributions and whether they should be optional.

It was me who posted that Serf, what I actually put was:

"One of them also suggested that maybe people should have a choice as to whether they pay NI or private medical insurance.

The sad thing is that I would guess that a lot of the members of CA would not be able to afford comprehensive health insurance would they? Especially as it would almost certainly be more expensive than paying NI."

That was exactly the point I was making, that most people in the UK wouldn't be able to pay for the care they get from the NHS if they had to pay for it through insurance. I know I couldn't. I have several existing health conditions that make getting insurance generally more expensive and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I don't have a problem with stuff from CA being posted here especially as a PP said no one is allowed to reply in a critical way in their group itself, some of it is unintentionally funny whilst being mind blowingly stupid and/or ignorant in a 'cut off your nose to spite your face' kind of way.

I have posted some myself but the one that stands out is the one that I found from the CA member who is planning to join the protest before she takes her daughter for an appointment at GOSH. How can she not see what a hypocrite she is being? How can she not see that she is protesting about the hospital that is treating her child?

Also I was well not shocked because I know what Kippers are like but amazed in a 'words fail me' kind of way that the 'Family Spokesperson' who has appeared out of nowhere seems to think that if you pay privately you get a better service at private hospitals than you do from the NHS.

This is an important case, not only for Charlie and his parents but for the UK and that is what is being largely discussed on these threads in my view, the insidious creep towards a fascist state where the people have few rights unless they have plenty of money. For women especially we are indeed 'slouching towards Gilead'.

GabsAlot · 16/07/2017 10:57

som of the comments on fb under sun article are so misinformd

Th US doctor was banned
Hs got a 50% chance of curing him
Gosh are reefusing scans

its just ridiculous

0nline · 16/07/2017 10:59

Lovely

Either of those seem like a good fit. I think In the news is perhaps the closest because the discussion ranges beyond the confines of an ethical dilemma. It relates just as much to the dynamics of MSM and SM and how they influence the reporting and commenting on a news item.

muckypup73 · 16/07/2017 10:59

LovelyBath77, I cannot recall howmany times I have been called a troll byt them and vile and disgusting,,,,,,

saoirse31 · 16/07/2017 11:01

Natasha, surely a person can protest against a decision a big organisation makes, whole still using that organisation.

0nline · 16/07/2017 11:01

It is interesting how CA view any others as 'trolls' who do not agree with them

That phenomonen extends way, way, way beyond CA.

Pretty much all over the net there has been a notable increase in the reframing of troll as "somebody who does not agree with me".

GabsAlot · 16/07/2017 11:03

really whilst activly protesting against them saoirse?

LovelyBath77 · 16/07/2017 11:07

OK so how do people feel about me suggesting to MN we more the thread to "In the News"? We don't want it getting taken down due to argument about us being unreasonable to discuss it. It also detracts from the discussion a bit. Let me know, what you think.

SerfTerf · 16/07/2017 11:10

"Natasha, surely a person can protest against a decision a big organisation makes, whole still using that organisation."

I think @NatashaGurdin is right TBH @saoirse31.

Registering a polite objection by email is one thing. Standing outside a public hospital, chanting and waving a banner (with the "GOSH are murderers" brigade) in a way that impedes pedestrian flow and might intimidate child patients, before rolling up your banner and taking your child inside to get their free world-class healthcare has the stench of hypocrisy and is just odd behaviour.

SerfTerf · 16/07/2017 11:11

"In the news" would be a good fit, I think @LovelyBath77

0nline · 16/07/2017 11:11

really whilst activly protesting against them saoirse?

Yes. It's question of opinion and need operating in the same timeframe.

They have an opinion on the Charlie Gard case that contrasts with GOSH's position

They need GOSH.

Because if your child is being treated by GOSH, you likely don't have a huge amount choice where they are treated. You need to go to the closest places with the degree of specialised expertise your child requires. Thst need will not cancel out your opinion on the case. Particularly if you are experience some chaffing with staff during the treatment of your child there.

Sorry. Typing while four kittens are recreating Sons Of Anarchy on my sofa. Hope the above makes sense. Hard to focus when a million tiny needles keep puncturing your feet.