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Grenfell Tower The Aftermath Thread SIX.

691 replies

HelenaDove · 05/07/2017 19:46

I thought i would take the oppurtunity to start thread six as thread five is now coming to an end. Thanks Thanks to all those lost in the fire their survivors families friends and volunteers.

Link to thread five which also includes links to previous threads.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2959251-London-Fire-Grenfell-Tower-thread-five?pg=1

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HelenaDove · 06/07/2017 20:44

Just caught channel 4 news. Moore Bick is attending a question and answer session with the residents tonight.

They still want submissions from the residents in by 14th July.

A member of Grenfells legal response team pointed out (in channel 4s report) that some Grenfell residents are still in hospital and wont be able to get a submission in in this short length of time.

He also pointed out that followers of the Islamic faith have an initial 40 day mourning period.

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LordTrash · 06/07/2017 20:54

Fireproof cladding was used on the ground floor, then the flammable stuff for the residential floors according to this: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/06/grenfell-fire-proof-cladding-specified-by-architects-only-used-on-ground-floor

"We need good costs for Cllr Feilding Mellen" is interesting. This is the same man who gave over a local library for the sole use of a private school. He was investigated over that when it transpired his own children were on the waiting list for said school. Cleared because he'd mentioned it before the deal was done.

Wealthy property developer. Wonder if we'll hear more about him as the investigation proceeds.

mrsglowglow · 06/07/2017 21:07

Lord yes there's plenty more about the dis honourable gentleman Feilding -Mellen. Complaints were raised by borough residents as to insider knowledge dealings. He purchased his local property before the massive regeneration at a comparatively low price and then sat back watching its value soar after his council had spent millions gentrifying the area. The complaint was not upheld as they said he held a different position at the time of the purchase and would not have been privvy to sensitive info. Hmmmmm.

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HelenaDove · 06/07/2017 22:52

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-evacuated-collapse-2-times-major-concerns-movement-residents-firefighters-safety-a7826911.html

Residents of the Lancaster West estate say their safety concerns are not being listened to.

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HelenaDove · 07/07/2017 00:16

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40520596

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HelenaDove · 07/07/2017 00:19

"The retired judge who will head the Grenfell Tower inquiry "lost the room" when he met residents and survivors, according to a community group member.

Joe Delaney, of the Grenfell Action Group, told the BBC that Sir Martin Moore-Bick "couldn't even control the crowd" at the meeting on Thursday.

A video of the meeting shows the ex-judge saying he would "find the facts as I see them from the evidence".

He has already faced calls to step down just days after being appointed.

Sir Martin said he had been invited to the meeting by the Lancaster West Residents Association, and left after almost three hours.

He described it afterwards as a "very useful meeting".

Mr Delaney told BBC Radio 5 live that Sir Martin "wasn't jeered or booed. It was more scepticism. You could hear people signing and tutting".

"It got a bit loud before the end. The man couldn't even control the crowd and hold them. I have heard public speakers who can shut up a stadium full of thousands of people. This man couldn't hold a room with 200 or so people."

Local resident Melvyn Akins, 30, said there was "frustration, anger and confusion" in the meeting, and that Sir Martin told those gathered that he could not start work on the inquiry until his terms of reference were established.

"It is going to be an uphill struggle. People feel abandoned. Now you have got somebody coming in and saying 'I am going to look into it all thoroughly' and it is not good enough.

"People firmly believe that arrests should be made as a result of the outcome of all of this. If arrests are not made, people are going to feel justice may not be being done."

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HelenaDove · 07/07/2017 01:02

Survivors and residents of the Grenfell Tower estate have asked for more time to draw up the terms of reference for the inquiry into the fire that killed more than 80 people.

The request came up at the almost three-hour meeting in a north Kensington community centre on Thursday evening attended by the chair of the inquiry, Sir Martin Moore-Bick – the first time he had met residents.
Here’s the real backstory to Grenfell – the Tory attack on social housing
Nick Forbes
Read more

The former appeal court judge, who was heckled, left saying only that the exercise had been “very useful”. Much of the heated debate revolved around problems of parliamentary timetables and anger that MPs’ holidays should apparently dictate the pace of the inquiry.

Moore-Bick told the meeting he was eager to resolve the terms of reference for the inquiry as soon as possible so that he can start taking evidence. For that to happen, parliament must receive notice before the summer recess on 20 July.

“I can’t do more than assure you that I know what it is to be impartial,” Moore-Bick told the meeting.

“I’ve been a judge for 20 years, and I give you my word that I will look into this matter to the very best of my ability and find the facts as I see them from the evidence.

“That’s my job, that’s my training, and that’s what I intend to do. Now if I can’t satisfy you because you have some preconception about me as a person that’s up to you.”

Andrea Newton, vice-chair of Lancaster West Residents Association, said afterwards: “We are calling on Theresa May to allow three further weeks for residents to make submissions on the terms of reference.

“We are not in a position to go on holiday. We are still grieving and need time to organise.” She said that Moore-Bick had listened to residents. “I don’t care which judge presides over the inquiry but they need to give us longer to [make submissions in the terms of reference].”

A civil servant who was with the judge described the meeting as “lively”. There was no mass demand for the former judge to stand down.

The session, which began at 7pm, was held in Latymer Community Church in the shadow of the burnt-out shell of Grenfell Tower. The building’s windows and walls were still plastered with notices seeking information about missing victims of the inferno. It was organised by Lancaster West Residents Association and open to residents of the surrounding estates whose identities were checked at the door.

Arriving just before 7pm, Moore-Bick said: “I’m here at the invitation of Lancaster West Residents Association and they are waiting to see me.”

A couple of residents who emerged before the end of the meeting said that they had given the judge a “run for his money”. One added: “He’s not giving any answers but I suppose he can’t do that yet.”
Melvyn Akins.
Melvyn Akins. Photograph: Jonathan Brady/PA

Melyvn Akins, 34, said residents felt frustrated, angry and confused. “It was always going to be an uphill struggle [for the chair of the inquiry],” he said. “People feel abandoned.

“He was saying he was going to look into things but the residents have many immediate needs. People believe arrests should be made and if there aren’t arrests then justice won’t have been done.”

Someone who suggested that the inquiry should look at the general issue of social housing was told by Moore-Bick that it would be too broad a subject for his inquiry.

Dr Lauriane Thorner, a resident, said there had been some positive developments. “They said they wanted us to give what evidence we have and the questions we [need answered].”
Jacqui Haynes.
Jacqui Haynes. Photograph: Jonathan Brady/PA

Not everyone was reassured at the end of the evening. Jacqui Haynes, a resident, said: “What a load of crap. We don’t want the [judge] who was handpicked by Theresa May.”

Organisations such as Inquest, which support the bereaved in coroner’s courts, have called on the government to ensure that relatives are provided with legal advice and representation.

Daniel Machover, Inquest’s chair, said: “Bereaved families, survivors and local residents affected by the fire [need] secure expert legal representation to enable their full participation in this process.

“Otherwise, families will immediately start at a disadvantage compared to the well-resourced public bodies and corporations with an interest in narrowing the inquiry.”

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HelenaDove · 07/07/2017 01:03

Someone who suggested that the inquiry should look at the general issue of social housing was told by Moore-Bick that it would be too broad a subject for his inquiry Hmm

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AngelaKardashian · 07/07/2017 05:56

Petition for a memorial and/or social housing to be built on the site and for the land NOT to be sold to private developers:

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/build-a-memorial-on-the-grenfell-tower-land-when-it-s-demolished

Lucysky2017 · 07/07/2017 08:29

I don't see why MPs cannot deal with stuff by email from their very long summer recess just as they deal with constituent issues over that period but I suppose it is too late to change the rules that they have to agree the enquiry terms whilst in a full sitting of the house and I doubt anyone wants to lose another 3 months.

My view on enquiries is they rarely get to the bottom of everything and waste loads of public money better spend building a few more houses but if we have to have one to make it effective it needs to be as narrow as posisble and clear and simple because look at those very long ones we have had and the width and breath and delays - it becomes an impossible task. I would much rather we looked at a few key very narrow issues very thoroughly and got quick tangile results without spending a fortune rather than having a broad enquiry that takes 7 years and ends up having 5 replacement heads of it because each one is rejected on some or other ground.

LordTrash · 07/07/2017 08:45

Which is why an inquest might have been a better bet: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/what-is-an-inquest-different-public-inquiry-grenfell-tower-victims-a7794661.html

2rebecca · 07/07/2017 11:00

Agree that public enquiries are often just a wealth creation scheme for the people in them and although the public often clammers for them they are rarely happy with the process or result. If my money is to be spent on one I want it to have a narrow specific remit and to report back within a year.
It's easy to say money should be spent on a huge far reaching enquiry that will go on for years when you aren't paying for it. A lot of the stuff the public enquiry will deal with is already being dealt with anyway eg safety regulations and materials used in tower blocks.

HelenaDove · 07/07/2017 14:59

2 rebecca The inquiry (either this one or a seperate one needs to include the wider issues in social housing or something like this will happen again. Tenants have no rights over who comes to do work in their homes. None. Trading Standards wont help unless you have paid for the work done.

Gas Safety arent interested until something actually happens. I got told that directly by them.

HAs are not subject to FOI including on things like fire safety as ive posted on previous page.

2rebecca you do realize that the Grenfell residents are taxpayers too. A wider enquiry doesnt have to go on for years. The reason Hillsborough went on for years was because of the lies and cover ups.

I do think though that like both Hillsborough and Daniel Morgan Grenfell will very likely have to have an Independent Panel.

People died in that tower in the most horrific way including children and babies. I really dont think a Mighty Taxpayer stance is going to wash on this, especially with the amount of money recently handed to the DUP.

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mrsglowglow · 07/07/2017 20:06

An Ipswich Councillor Nadia Cenci has apparently been tweeting dispicable comments regarding the grenfell victims. Stupid woman then closed her account but the screenshots are doing the rounds. If this is true she must be sacked from office. I have seen the screenshots and will try to post.

mrsglowglow · 07/07/2017 20:11

Take a look at @holski_beat's Tweet: twitter.com/holski_beat/status/883391106775265282?s=09

HelenaDove · 07/07/2017 20:31

mzB the woman from that house of commons video that was secretly filmed, was on channel 4 news tonight.

She also says the wider issues in social housing NEED to be included in the inquiry. With this and the rest of the things she said tonight and prior to tonight she is inspirational. If there is a Grenfell Independent Panel formed soon or later on, she should be on it IMO.
Facebook have removed some of the interviews shes been involved in re. Grenfell Hmm

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HelenaDove · 07/07/2017 20:33

mrs glow thats awful Unfortunately ive seen many similar comments and worse Sad

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HelenaDove · 10/07/2017 00:43

Grenfell............"Patients still hear screaming" says GP.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40530230

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Hairydilemma · 10/07/2017 16:22

Police believe 255 survived: there should have been 350 people in the block but 14 people were out at the time.

It's unclear from the police statement (or at least, from the way the BBC has reported it) whether the 14 are part of the 350 or in addition. I think they are taking the 14 off the 350, as they talk about this leaving 'at least 80' dead or missing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40557126

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HelenaDove · 10/07/2017 17:22

www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/07/10/camd-j10.html

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