Jeremy Corbyn at Glastonbury ugh

[LivingOnAnIsland]

What a creep!

birds, I think sometimes being on the left does give us a sense of moral superiority (eg our horror at the Tories' inhumanly cruel policies wrt the disabled - that means we're on the side of good, right?) and it can lead to some pretty awful intolerance as well. Like the horrendous violent rhetoric employed by some transactivists when they threaten to rape and murder feminists who disagree with them. They feel justified as they're defending a victimised minority, right? And somehow, for some hate-filled extremists, that translates into telling people they are scum who should die in a fire. Similarly, I'm sure some people on the left can resort to some hateful rhetoric of their own wrt the right, but I don't let these people define me or make me question my politics. Much like some Leavers felt unsettled by being on the same side of the debate as the likes of Britain First and the EDL, there will always be people who dehumanise their opponents and treat them viciously and if they're o the left then I might feel uncomfortable being in any way aligned with them. It doesn't change my core beliefs; I just want to challenge it whenever it occurs on any side. We have far better arguments up our sleeve than heaping misogynistic abuse on May. It's unnecessary, it's undignified and it reduces politics to a slanging match.

(In the interests of full disclosure though, I may have said some fairly unpalatable things about Michael Gove in my time...)

AwaywiththePixies27 - neither lifting the benefits cap/freeze or increasing disabled people's benefits were in the Labour manifesto. They categorically were not. A) I am not right-wing (stupid, pathetic, tired excuse for an 'argument') and B) I am not the one who is lying am I? Anyone can check.

*Nor. N seems to be on strike

AwaywiththePixies27 - would you like to point out where that little c&p says anything about the benefits cap being lifted?

This thread made me watch it. The whole thing is inspiring.

allthepretty did you know this:
In 2016 the number of applicants to UK universities fell slightly, but not by as much as they did in 2012, following the increase in tuition fees
Uni fees are impacting kids decisions.
fullfact.org/education/are-university-applications-falling-uk/

antimatter - thanks for the full link.

Here's their correction at the end:
Correction 2 June 2017
We originally wrote that the number of university applications by UK students fell in 2016 when the number actually rose. We’ve corrected references to this in the text and infographic.

University applications are certainly did dip slightly in 2012 - but they are now significantly higher than they were before the rise and the number of young people from disadvantaged backgrounds applying is rising. The factchecker certainly reinforces the idea that tuition fees do not impact on university numbers - quite the opposite.

In Scotland, we spend more on the NHS, want rid of Trident, pay student fees and have a progressive approach to politics. So, is Corbyn wanting to adopt a Scottish model? No. He wants to continue the old status-quo of two party system where the PM and their party wield near absolute power, where there is no transparency and no real need to build political consensus.

The Corbyn movement is an English movement, something which the Westminster bubble of media and politicians has largely failed to remark upon. In England, Corbyn's position is presented as the only alternative to May. There's another alternative, in action right now, just north of the border. One that is pro-EU, too, which apparently most Labour voters are but their leader is not.

It IS possible to run a liberal, left of centre PR government without kowtowing to austerity or harking back to socialism. But that's an option not on offer to English voters. The liberally minded, internationalist Corbynistas at Glastobury should be calling for it, but instead they've bought into a myth of JC that doesn't represent who he really is.

They published a separate manifesto for the disabled...I did download it but think it got deleted in a phone upgrade.

I Can't understand the problem people seem to have with trying to change the way economics is working in our country. I suppose torries all support a system that during a time of austerity increases national debt whilst actively creating billionaires? Are you truly claiming that trickle down economics works?

Also all this about Corbyn being a terrorist sympathiser. So what would you prefer to people talking about peace? Better to just keep blowing each other up?

Seriously present some working alternatives, because what the horrors seem hellbent on continuing clearly isn't working!

And my phone just auto corrected torries to horrors, clearly Samsung doesn't like them!

There"s huge debate if 50% if school leavers should go to uni if many can't get jobs above minimum wage if at all.
I don't won't to get into that debate because it has been talked about many times over.
If all those graduates improve their job chances that's great. I think some do but some don't.

I love Corbyn but actually I don't agree with the tuition fee thing, and I am speaking as someone with 30k plus worth of student debt.

I don't even notice I've got it. It comes out my salary at a paltry rate of about £50 a month, it doesn't affect me credit rating and after 25 years it gets written off anyway.

I think there is a huge issue these days with people thinking that everyone should go to university. They shouldn't. Lots of trades can and should be learned "on the job" and people should value these just as much as academics. Loads of subjects are now studied which should not be degrees. I know someone doing a degree in television production - that's a perfect example of something he would be way, way, WAY better off learning on the job. His degree will not give him an edge - in fact employers will prefer people who have practical work experience.

I would rather we spent the money on state education, the NHS and the environment.

We on the left are not one homogenous mass with the same opinions on everything.

I think there is a huge issue these days with people thinking that everyone should go to university. They shouldn't.

I definitely agree with that.

I have done three times allthepretty.

It's not my fault if you refuse to can't clearly see it. I am not your google. Try a bit of research yourself.

Nibble I don't think anyone who supports a Tory /DUP coalition can claim a moral high ground over this whole Corbyn/TerrorIst Sympathiser BS now.

It just makes them look pathetic.

I think there is a huge issue these days with people thinking that everyone should go to university. They shouldn't. Lots of trades can and should be learned "on the job"

Agreed. All the people I went to uni with have struggled to get jobs. 2 people got straight in there out of hundreds.

On the other hand. I had friends who dropped out of college who have gone on to do similar jobs and be promoted to Paralegals etc since.

I do think there ought to be more encouragement for students to work whilst studying. I did an academic degree at a RG uni and worked part-time (15 hrs a week). Because of that I managed to get a decent job pretty much immediately. Lots of my friends with the same degree but no work experience struggled.

I agree Moomin.

I've often said that would be a good idea, I wasn't allowed to sign off at the jobcentre once when I found a work experience placement, because I'd found it by myself no companies got a certain payment. The rules are ridiculous.

Learning on the job and part time would make things so much easier for people to get into work after finishing their education.

At the moment Universities do not have a cap on the number of students they can admit. This has enabled universities to expand. If Labour scrap tuition fees there will have to be cap on student numbers. There is no way, they could afford for there not to be. Labour state that they will abolish tuition fees for UK and EU students. There would have to be a cap on students numbers also, the model my DH saw (he works at a UK university) suggested that universities would not be getting £9,000 per student per year it would more likely to be around £6,000 per student per year. This, along with the cap would have a huge impact on universities and a lot of students now voting for Labour because of their tuition fee policy could find it very hard to actually go to university.

Not rtft. JC at an Armed Forces Day event is as likely as Trump at a Pride event.
They both like drinking in the adoration of supportive crowds. All politicians do. If they can thumb their nose at the less welcoming crowd and then go "Wha -at? What do I do?" So much the better.

Echo chamber politics.

HE WENT TO AN ARMED FORCES DAY EVENT.

Bully for him. That makes up for everything.

It completely invalidates your comment but hey ho just go ahead and ignore that.

OP I agree. I am fed up with seeing JC on a stage with a microphone preaching to everyone.

The sort of people who say "Glasto is just a music festival" are the same who say that people in the arts should "just stick to music/acting" and not have an opinion on politics. The arts are inherently political. You can link various movements in theatre to different political ages.

Andrew Lloyd Webber's brand of "sit down and enjoy a story of the individual triumphing over the masses without any help" musical theatre is inherently Thatcherite. The Angry Young Men of the 1950s were reacting to the low standards of living for working classes at the time, and formed part of the cultural revolution of the New Left.

There's a reason why arts budgets are almost always the first things to be cut - because it's an incredibly powerful medium for expressing unrest and distaste with political systems. The same goes for Glasto. It is political. It always has been, and always should be.