London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five

[RhythmAndStealth]

RIP

Five victims officially named
At least 79 victims expected, possibly more
Many displaced and struggling

To all those affected and all those helping

Thread four
Thread three
Thread three contains links to threads one and two.

KCTMO are a bunch of absolute cunts. They really see the Grenfell residents as nothing.

Sir Martin Moore Bick has said the enquiry may not be as wide ranging as the residents hope.

That's dreadful. I am afraid it confirms my view that the state does very little very well at all and the less all of us have to do with big state the better. No one looks after you better than yourself and your family in life. I know Red and I will have radically different views on some things but we can probably agree the state is utterly useless at times with none of the efficiency and good people you get in the private sector. I am not against nor would I want the welfare state to go (I live with 3 Corbynist sons even) but I think on a personal level most people if they can possibly manage it do a lot better in life if they try to rely on as little state provision as possible. Be self employed if you can too so you don't even have a boss - best thing I ever did was starting to work for myself. I may not get paid or fed if I don't get customers to pay me but at least I don't rely on the hope the state will give me money or house me or whatever.

Pilgrim Tucker‏ @PilgrimTucker 4h4 hours ago

Grenfell inquiry 'Independent' panel advisor on safety Sir Ken Knight supported cuts to fire service & opposed sprinklers in tower blocks

Lucy there is a poster on here.........Albadross who was insured and that insurance included temp accomodation The insurance refused to pay out.

People on here are talking about basic compassion. The Grenfell residents were working in jobs like cleaning and nursing and they have lost everything. Not everyone can be self employed Lucy because these jobs still need to be done by someone.

What about mental health and the very high possibility that residents are suffering from PTSD. Are you suggesting they somehow find the money for mental health care? You do know the NHS is part of the state too right?
And that would be on top of having to pay to furnish a new home when they finally get one .....furniture, beds, white goods. All this is an enormous task. They are waking up every day and their to do lists to sort everything out is endless.

Lucy you do know what PFI stands for dont you. These social housing refurbs were done this way. Ive put plenty of links in this thread to demonstrate this.

thejusticegap.com/2017/06/grenfell-tower-fire-tenants-rights-gaps-law/

Oliver Duggan‏*@OliDuggan*
NEW: Sir Martin Moore-Bick, judge appointed to lead #Grenfell inquiry, massively managing expectations straight out the gate... (via @PA)

Jo Maugham QC‏*@JolyonMaugham*
Is the Government trying to get this wrong? Why would it impose terms of reference without even discussing them with residents?

Jane Samuels‏*@Jane*_Samuels
Yet Sir Martin Moore-Bick confirmed on BBC that his TOR [Terms of Reference] has been given to him, as narrow from point of fire and not before. 1/2
Is it any wonder the residents want a broader inquiry as they raised huge concerns long before the fire - and the council ignored ? 2/2

This is going the same way as Hillsborough.

I know Red and I will have radically different views on some things but we can probably agree the state is utterly useless at times with none of the efficiency and good people you get in the private sector.

My opinion is the state is bloody useless and wasteful at times with poor accountability. The private sector is also dreadful in not being transparent enough. I, rather controversially, think that PFI can be done well, but really is because of how the contracts are drawn up by people in the public sector who don't really appreciate the implications with people in the private sector who are most concerned about profit - thus the worst of all worlds. With good public sector people and good private sector people who see a value in not just the headline profit they can work.

I'm not quite sure what you think my views are. I personally am not seeing too much of that from either the left or the right at the moment. My primary political belief is in transparency and accountability in both public and private sector.

What the fucking hell is going on. How can it be that the public inquiry into this will not even consider what happened in the lead up to the fire??? Anyone with half a brain cell would already know that the 'before' details are incredibly important to getting to the cause and to those who are responsible. Does it mean (I'm hoping) there will be a separate inquiry into the goings on at grenfell tower before the tower? Teresa May needs to address this matter.

Should say before the fire not tower.

So Bick doesnt want to look at the broader picture. Which includes pre fire when the tenants were sounding warnings themselves and told to shut up and go away as well as the attempt to gag them legally.
Looking at the broader picture also means looking at the wider issues re. social housing.

The genie is out of the bottle though and Moore Bicks appointment is a clear attempt to try and put it back in.

Yes Helena that and also a time stalling exercise. We'll eventually get the result of this inquiry which will throw up questions about the tmo, the contractors etc and that will lead to another inquiry that will lead to another inquiry by which time years will have gone by.

This is awful but surely it isn't going to work. The Hillsborough families didn't shut up and go away, they kept fighting, and the Grenfell campaigners will also have social media to help them.
This is going to follow the government around, they will not be allowed to let it drop.
However, I wonder how criminal charges are going to interact with the inquiry. Surely they can't cover the same ground?

So it also means the power surges will be ignored. Those surges could have caused damage to the fridge which started the fire.

The whole overall picture needs to be incorporated into the inquiry.

Its not Bick himself, its the remit he has been given by the government.

Jo Maugham QC‏*@JolyonMaugham*
For a number of reasons this statement should profoundly alarm those of us who want an effective judicial inquiry. /1
First up, process. One of the purposes of the inquiry must be to begin to heal the psychological wounds of a community that went unheard. /2
For that to happen - for the inquiry to heal rather than harm - the Grenfell community must feel heard and engaged with. /3
For the Government to impose terms of reference rather than consult or negotiate on them is antithetical to real engagement. /4
"You know we ignored your pleas last time? Well, now we're going to ignore them again." is how the Government's conduct will be read. /5
Why is Counsel not being appointed on behalf of residents to negotiate those terms of references before they are announced? /6
It is almost as if Government is deliberately setting out to aggravate division and condemn the inquiry to failure before it even begins. /7
Second, terms. Leave aside the process whereby the terms of reference were arrived at. They are also plain baffling as terms. /8
The terms appear almost deliberately drawn so as to turn a blind eye to some of the key features of this tragedy. /9
Why will the inquiry not examine whether and why fears expressed by residents that the Tower was unsafe were ignored? /10
Why will it not examine whether and how the nature of the relationship between Borough and TMO contributed to any lack of care? /11
Why will it not examine how it came to be that no review of Building Regulations took place after the Lakanal fire? /12
Why will it not examine whether the use of private building inspection regimes has led to a bidding down of safety regimes? /13
These are questions with profound implications for the safety of our housing stock UK - and Government seems not to want answers. /14
So process and the terms of reference appear almost designed to deliver failure both in terms of learning lessons and healing division. /15
Final point. My gut says that the story of Grenfell Tower will come to be one of outsourcing. /16
The outsourcing by Councils who cannot or will not spend money on ensuring it is done properly of work... /17
... to Contractors who know that Councils want that work done on the cheap and so are incentivised not properly to check on it... /18
... and so not they are being invited, quietly, to do it cheaply and poorly. And so we end up with something deeply troubling indeed. /19
What is outsourced is not the doing of vital safety work - but moral and legal responsibility for the failure to do that work. /20
These terms of reference show no interest at all in that profoundly important issue. We should all be very alarmed indeed. /Ends

Point 20 gets to the crux of it doesn't it. Geez.

Simon McKay‏*@simonmckay*

"survivors and victims’ families – will be consulted about the terms of reference" T May, 22 June. Below, chairman on terms of reference:

(see image linked to above)

Please tell me the grenfell residents have have clever lawyers to speak up for them and get answers from the government. Where the hell are our human rights in all this?

Red ive just seen that thread. It nails it.

YY Batteries It also explains why some companies who do repairs and maintenance in tenants properties can get away with what they do. There are also some who do go above and beyond for tenants though.

www.ft.com/content/b8bb72d2-5c1a-11e7-b553-e2df1b0c3220
Grenfell Tower: the cladding, the contractors and the chain of confusion
Warnings were made by fire safety experts that English local authorities and the building industry failed to heed

mrs glow glow According to an article ive linked on one of the threads Michael Mansfield QC has met with the tenants. I really hope that him or someone like him takes their case.

Please tell me the grenfell residents have have clever lawyers to speak up for them and get answers from the government. Where the hell are our human rights in all this?

Jo Maugham who wrote the twitter thread above is a QC. He has a pro-bono law firm called the 'Good Law Project'. He has been at Grenfell trying to help and has called for an amnesty for those with questionable immigration status who lived in Grenfell.

He also has some kind of link to do with the firm who were involved in the a50 law case which was crowd funded and his passion is tax (has been doing some stuff over Uber I believe).

Maugham has gained something of a media reputation through his following on twitter.

Those people in Grenfell will get legal help one way or another. This won't just 'disappear'. Not easily. This is high profile and in the public interest.

David Lammy‏*@DavidLammy*

I have been hearing directly from Grenfell survivors today. It is important that their voices are heard, so I am passing on their messages:
The support has been "scandalous" and "a farce". Survivors have attempted suicide because they feel so isolated, alone and unsupported
There are no social workers in the hotels working to suppory survivors. Survivors "have to find everything out for themselves"
There is "no central organisation" to manage and deliver victim support. No information delivery - survivors are finding out from each other
Survivors have also told us today that families are being offered accommodation outside of the borough of Kensington and Chelsea
Survivors feel like they have been failed, abandoned and let down, again. RBKC and Govnt need to listen to the survivors and act, please.
Survivors do not recognise official statements about support. They say: show us the families that have been offered housing and given money