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News

London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five

958 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 17:14

RIP Flowers

Five victims officially named Flowers
At least 79 victims expected, possibly more Flowers
Many displaced and struggling Flowers

To all those affected and all those helping Flowers

Thread four
Thread three
Thread three contains links to threads one and two.

OP posts:
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12
HemanOrSheRa · 25/06/2017 19:08

Ah right. He may have a point in the situation of additional gas pipe work being installed. Whoever thought that is a good idea? In our blocks, if you can imagine, all of the kitchen pantries, airing cupboards, landing cupboards are stacked on top of one another running up through the building. When they were built they lined there spaces with asbesto board as a retardant to stop any chimney effect. Which was sensible at the time I guess and as far as I know it's the type of board that is OK unless people start drilling/cutting out the linings themselves. It was just done as part of the planned programme of improving homes works.

Anyway, that is irrelevant. These people are being treated appallingly. Unbelievable.

HemanOrSheRa · 25/06/2017 19:09

*these spaces.

HelenaDove · 25/06/2017 19:12

Heman i completely agree They are being treated very shabbily.

My dad says the same thing about asbestos (he was a builder and site foreman) that its fine as long as its not disturbed.

mrsglowglow · 25/06/2017 19:23

How can they be expected to pay for hotel upfront?? Not everyone has credit cards or cash available. Surely the large chain hotels could invoice the councils. It's not like they won't receive payment. Terrible organisation again.

Really feel for the residents who again have done nothing wrong but are suffering and being blamed for delaying work.

mrsglowglow · 25/06/2017 19:26

Helena that is appalling re the conditions of the temporary accommodation given to one tenant. Madness to go from one dangerous place straight into another!

AngelaKardashian · 25/06/2017 19:32

I am just placemarking to keep up to date on the developments. I can't stop thinking about the victims of Grenfell Tower and hope that they get the justice that they deserve.

HelenaDove · 25/06/2017 19:44

YY mrs glowglow And BBC News are being very disingenuous in the way they are reporting things.

Channel 4 news interviewed Rosie in her flat tonight. (ive linked a bbc clip of her upthread) Ch4 news revealed that her homeless father is staying there and sleeping on the floor. If they were to vacate im guessing Camden Council has no obligation to him.

HelenaDove · 25/06/2017 19:50

Sending a tenant into temp accomodation with exposed wiring does rather put doubt on their insistence that its for tenants safety.

mrsglowglow · 25/06/2017 20:01

11122aa I've not seen any politicians coming out saying it's a coverup. Where did you see this? There is certainly that feeling locally in places but likewise people are being told to stay calm and wait for the police/fire officials to do their job. The situation seems so unreal.

I heard a recording from a caller on LBC. I can't believe the vile words from this woman who lives in the development that will house some of the survivors. She was saying how she will move if they are moved in and that she pays 15k a Year in service charges! She feels sorry for them but doesn't want to come in to contact. Disgusting excuse of a human being.

mrsglowglow · 25/06/2017 20:15

Must add this though. Have seen the most wonderful kindness in London since this horror. Ordinary people from every walk of life, colour, religion giving so much and being together showing what really matters in life and death situations. Some with very little offering so much and opening up their doors to 'new' friends. Schools that have been closed have been helped to enable them to carry on for the children in other schools. There is humanity in London 💓

HelenaDove · 25/06/2017 20:23

YY mrs glow They could teach Kensington council a thing or two.

mrsglowglow · 25/06/2017 20:39

They certainly could Helena! How everyone helped each other. Folks out in the street, instinct taking over wanting to help fellow human beings. Should a large scale disaster ever hit us I know it will be neighbours, churches, mosques, temples coming to help long before any council or government. Also goes without saying the emergency services are the best and the bravest.

Toddle · 25/06/2017 22:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrsglowglow · 25/06/2017 22:29

No not true and that link is dodgy.

Toddle · 25/06/2017 22:35

Wow Sad why would anybody ever make articles like that up

mrsglowglow · 25/06/2017 23:14

Don't know why Toddle. 🙁 either sick in the mind or for financial gain getting income for clicks on website.

HelenaDove · 25/06/2017 23:49

Copied and pasted from the comments underneath.

3 hours ago
Herma
In 2005 Camden Council's original funding application to the Treasury for the renovation scheme for the 5 Camden Towers that have now had be evacuated because of multiple fire safety failures, had been rejected by the Treasury because of spiraling costs.

Camden Coucil then had further discussions with the Treasury and the ODPM (now renamed as Department of Local Government) about a cheaper scheme.

The Guardian, on 15 April 2005, wrote:

"Camden's housing director, Neil Litherland, said that although the proposals would seek to stay within the £55m budget, they would not be a scaled down version of the original plans." ...

He said: "It's a tall order, but we're still looking at refurbishing all five towers, not just two or three; the proposals will also still have to meet the [2010] decent homes standard. ... Mr Litherland said the new bid would cut further costs by using cheaper techniques for cladding the blocks ..."

www.theguardian.com/society/2005/apr/15/privatefinance.uknews

Bloomed · 26/06/2017 00:04

Have reported that dodgy news link. Very upsetting for all the survivors who've lost someone and don't like to think of the revenue being generated off that clickbait (no reflection on you Toddle).

RedToothBrush · 26/06/2017 00:05

I've not seen any politicians coming out saying it's a coverup

Lammy and Abbott haven't said it but are getting close.

I do think the 600 figure is too high and that's leading to part of the problem about events and the dead/missing.

Some suggestions about the 79 figure being too low are that because Boris changed the way in which deaths are recorded in fires there is a discrepancy. Only people who die in a fire are now counted. So if you are rescued and then die in hospital you don't count. Or if you jump off a building and die that's suicide not death from a fire.

I don't think that holds up as one of those declared officially dead was from the 23rd floor and official cause of death is died of multiple injuries.

However this is the only official death in this manner too which also seems surprising as jumpers would be the most likely ones for their bodies to have survived in theory. This is one of the things Lammy has been getting upset about - lack of info relating to jumpers who were witnessed by residents. But without getting grusome there might be difficulties in identifying them too.

I can certainly see why there is frustration creeping into what Lammy is saying, and why he's saying it. It doesn't help that his friend was one of the first identified either as I think this puts him under certain extra pressures. But I also think what Lammy says is problematic in a way too - not that I blame him for it under the circumstances. I don't want to go in that much more, as I think it's unfair to him, as he is both personally and professionally caught up in this and that always creates problems.

The police do need to clarify a few things in the next couple of days. What Lammy was upset about mid week last week was more or less addressed in their last public statement on Friday (Lammy has asked why no documents had been seized but the Met stated this had happened on Fri), so perhaps his lead will result in a few more answers that people are looking for.

HelenaDove · 26/06/2017 00:23

PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS!

A 23 storey Newham tower block has been condemned by fire safety experts as a death trap The contractors are Rydon.

The woman in this interview has not been able to use her boiler for three years through fear. This is how they expect tenants to live. THE UTTER UTTER BASTARDS!!!

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p056nw0f

Toddle · 26/06/2017 00:38

Thankyou bloomed.

ExplodedCloud · 26/06/2017 00:58

Helena is that the R4 report? I heard that and it was shocking. The gas people were horrified and said go and stay with anyone who will have you. The balconies had been enclosed and the boilers installed badly in those new rooms creating some sort of flashback effect of one went wrong.
I don't understand why councils are making as hoc arrangements and expecting everyone affected to have a credit card with a four figure availability.
Tbh, if I was on the 3rd floor, mobile and childless I'd be taking my chances but the authorities need to recogrecognise that not everyone can decamp as easily as Kensington Rock.

ExplodedCloud · 26/06/2017 01:01

And wrt gas pipes. They run the full height of the building as a retrofit. Who knows how that compromises the floor fire breaks? Running a pipe up the only stair case and not even boxing it in? Insane.

HelenaDove · 26/06/2017 01:16

YY Exploded. And there there is disabled people who will need a place with accessibility

Its horrifying. Its largely because of the shitty attitudes towards tenants that we are where we are.

I bet Rydons thoughts were "its only tenants" Then tenants get attitudes like "dont you get the work done for free" when they raise concerns during refurbishments.

Tenants need more rights over what is done to their homes, they need more rights over whether they want certain workpersons in their homes. Tenants have been forced to have the same companies and workpersons in their homes again and again after voicing concerns and basically told to put up with it. (ive given an example of this upthread) Tenants need more rights over what is done to their homes and who/what to allow in them and it needs to be enshrined in law.