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In the shadow of Grenfell Tower- thread four

999 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 17/06/2017 14:02

Rest in Peace

Isaac Shawo, 5 Flowers
Khadija Saye, 24 Flowers
Mohammed Alhalaji, 23 Flowers

At least thirty people confirmed to have died Flowers

Six further deceased victims provisionally identified Flowers

Many more people feared to have died. They have yet to be reunited with their names Flowers

Nineteen people still in hospital, with ten in critical care Flowers

Many people homeless and dispossessed Flowers

Many bereaved Flowers

Many traumatised Flowers

“…it is difficult to escape a very sombre national mood.” The Queen.

Three investigations launched- Fire, Police and Public Inquiry
£5m Government Emergency Fund created
£3m donated by public
Peaceful protesters demand justice and answers.

Thread three (includes links to threads one and two)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
Badbadbunny · 19/06/2017 16:15

Yes, although I would say they need to emergency escape routes in case one is blocked by a fire - that way there is always one that is free.

I'm sure I read somewhere that this is now the case in newly built tower blocks.

Trouble is that some of the older ones were built with only one staircase. That's pretty much impossible to retro-fit another. So you either have to build an extra staircase to the outside or knock it down and rebuild it. Even with an exterior staircase, you need pretty extensive internal structural changes as you're having to knock through an existing flat on each floor, which then needs to be enclosed with fireproof walling and ceiling to contain fires in the flats either side.

I think, though, given what's just happened at Grenfell, and seeing as they had to spend £8m for the renovations to make it energy efficient, (cladding, new heating system, gas supply, new windows etc) it may be time to start a program of demolition of all the old tower blocks and rebuilding them to modern standards with two stairways, and insulation within the building rather than bolted on outside.

Badbadbunny · 19/06/2017 16:16

Yes, although I would say they need to emergency escape routes in case one is blocked by a fire - that way there is always one that is free.

But even if Grenfell had two fire escapes, presumably they'd both have been smoke logged given that the fire spread right around the exterior, so would it have helped at all?

UnderAPalmTree · 19/06/2017 16:22

Bad but surely the fire spread at a rate less slowly than it would take to evacuate a full tower, whether with one staircase or two staircases. I think that's what I meant previously. It doesn't matter how high a building is or how many floors or how many staircases - if you evacuate everyone with a full building alarm as soon as there is a proper fire - you would have 30 mins/one hour to get everyone out.

Yes there would still be smoke etc towards the end of the 30min/one hour period in this scenario but at least you would have the majority of people out, leaving those infirm/elderly etc for the fire brigade to concentrate their efforts on.

MonkeylovesRobot · 19/06/2017 16:23

badbad It would have depended on the location of the escape route, and the ventilation of the escape route. Your point is totally valid though, if the escape route had been on the completely decimated side of the building it would not have helped for evacuation; it may have held smoke within the cavity though.

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 19/06/2017 16:23

The silent march has started.

MonkeylovesRobot · 19/06/2017 16:23

it may be time to start a program of demolition of all the old tower blocks and rebuilding them to modern standards with two stairways, and insulation

Absolutely. I agree with this 100%.

Rinoachicken · 19/06/2017 16:24

The trouble is that people don't evacuate in an orderly fashion like in your office fire drill. They panic, they fall, they push, they take things with them that block staircases, they later might abandon what hey are carrying leaving an obstruction for others, there's crushing and injuries.

HelenaDove · 19/06/2017 16:28

Rino people do realise that but when certain sections of society are subjugated for a long period of time their trust in authority diminishes that bit more every time they are ignored patronized or belittled and the Grenfell residents had all this and the threat of legal action if they didnt STFU about safety concerns. And now millions have seen the Grenfell blog and the "legal" letters they were sent.

And other tenants elsewhere are treated in the same/similar ways With complete disdain and contempt. When people are treated like this for YEARS the trust and faith in authority completely goes. It ceases to exist.

It will take a lot to reverse this. It has been caused by YEARS of demonization of poorer people. Both in the press and on television.

David Lammy pointed out in the video in that blog link that the seizure of documents was done for the hacking investigation.

Tenants will hear that and they will think...........One rule for the celebs and one for us.

Whether this is accurate or not this could well be what they start to think,
Because trust has been eroded as i said above.

Rinoachicken · 19/06/2017 16:32

Helena are you referring to my post about evacuation or the one before?

I do appreciate that the residents trust is broken. I was more angry with posters on the previous page stoking up conspiracy theories and badmouthing the LFB and police. My post about evacuations was to those saying maybe they should have all been told to evacuate.

Rinoachicken · 19/06/2017 16:32

Or that total evacuation should be the default for all high rise buildings from now on

MonkeylovesRobot · 19/06/2017 16:34

How to we know documents haven't been seized?

HelenaDove · 19/06/2017 16:37

I was replying to your post of 15.49.

I do think the testimony of neighbours and friends around the community needs to be listened to.

That community has suffered so much Sad

MonkeylovesRobot · 19/06/2017 16:37

Residents are not supportive of "a day of rage" that has been planned for Wednesday in London.

Say that they ask for #peaceforlatimer and ask white ribbons to be used to demonstrate this movement.

MonkeylovesRobot · 19/06/2017 16:38

"I do think the testimony of neighbours and friends around the community needs to be listened to. "

People are listening to it. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I am. I know others on here are too. Just because we are saying that we don't think there is a conspiracy theory going on, doesn't mean we are not listening.

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 19/06/2017 16:41

There is a silent march currently going on, I think it sends a message yet none of the main stream media is picking it up. On Friday they showed the protesters getting into the Town Hall but never showed the peaceful but noisy protests going on at night.

I bet when the Socialist Worker's Party's Day of Rage happens they will be all over it. They only want to show things which fit their narrative. I think most people across the country would class a march of silence as news, it's something which is not usually done and I think speaks louder than words.

HelenaDove · 19/06/2017 16:43

I think the LFB have and are continuing to do a fantastic job under very difficult circumstances.

HelenaDove · 19/06/2017 16:48

"they only want to show things which fit their narrative"

This is why tenants have lost trust in the media. There was a tenant shouting at Jon Snow "you are only interested when ppl die"

Grenfell tried to get a story in the media for years about what was going on .

I put this on another thread but i know someone who has spent eight years sending out e mails and phone calls to progs like Watchdog.

They just arent interested.

Catminion · 19/06/2017 16:52

There was a completely peaceful protect in Ladbroke Grove when I went past about half an hour ago. All seemed to be local residents or supporters, not rent a mob

HelenaDove · 19/06/2017 16:54

www.facebook.com/groups/1495535657339414/

BahHumbygge · 19/06/2017 16:55

At what stage though, between burnt toast & inferno, do you declare full evacuation? you know what it's like at uni/work when you have several false alarms/v minor incident... people get alarm fatigue... then the next time it's the big one, but they've stayed put cos they're fed up/blasé. Fire planning has to take account of human psychology & unpredictability as well as the structure of the building. Stay in place is probably the best policy due to suffocating smoke spread, but only if the "containment" structure of the building isn't compromised by renovation & cladding. After these changes, fire evacuation policy shouldve been reviewed. It's absolutely criminal that as the context changed, it wasn't updated. Nevermind the negligence of putting flammable cladding on such a tall building with narrow staircase & suspected overcrowding.

Saucery · 19/06/2017 16:56

'Day of rage' is a stupid idea. Yes, of course there is anger about this, a righteous anger but it needs to be channelled and not add to the anger whirling about.
I wouldn't know about the Silent March if it wasn't for this thread - there's bugger all reporting being done on it as you say!
Yet the BBC want people affected and their families to contact them with their stories.

MonkeylovesRobot · 19/06/2017 16:58

helenawhat am i looking for in that group please?

Rinoachicken · 19/06/2017 16:59

Monkey thank you

UnderAPalmTree · 19/06/2017 17:00

bah if the emergency services are required to be called - there should be an evacuation, IMO.

SylviaPoe · 19/06/2017 17:03

Day of Rage is a terrible idea.