In the shadow of Grenfell Tower- thread four

[RhythmAndStealth]

Rest in Peace

Isaac Shawo, 5
Khadija Saye, 24
Mohammed Alhalaji, 23

At least thirty people confirmed to have died

Six further deceased victims provisionally identified

Many more people feared to have died. They have yet to be reunited with their names

Nineteen people still in hospital, with ten in critical care

Many people homeless and dispossessed

Many bereaved

Many traumatised

“…it is difficult to escape a very sombre national mood.” The Queen.

Three investigations launched- Fire, Police and Public Inquiry
£5m Government Emergency Fund created
£3m donated by public
Peaceful protesters demand justice and answers.

Thread three (includes links to threads one and two)

The Italian couple were still alive until after this clip.

Of course if they had known from the start the whole block was going to go up, then the correct advice would have been for everyone to evacuate straight away.

I'd say they knew the building was lost as early as 1.30. There is a picture timed at around 1.30 showing the entire side where it started was engulfed. I can't believe anyone seeing that could have thought they had any chance of saving the building nor rescuing people in it. If the order hadn't been made for everyone to evacuate at that moment (when the staircase was presumably still relatively clear of smoke), then it should have been. There's an interview with a firefighter saying he literally didn't have enough time (due to his oxygen tank capacity) nor energy to get up to the 23rd floor and down again, so they knew they couldn't go up and rescue the people on the upper floors. Their only hope was to get as low as possible to where they may have been reached by firefighters.

The fire investigators were implying the other day that they believe the fire did start in the flat where the fridge was.

Good blog post that sheds light on the empty homes in Kensington.

"The fire investigators were implying the other day that they believe the fire did start in the flat where the fridge was."

Really? I haven't hear them imply anything about the cause of the fire yet. (And it makes more sense to me that it was the cigarette vs neighbour's clothing that caused it and connected it to the cladding, then something internal on a concrete wall).

Watch this...seriously. The truth is being hidden. At least 300/400 people unaccounted for....

Domestic fires start, that is the reality. But all that should have happened is that the flat where it started may have been gutted, or at worst that floor.

" The truth is being hidden. "

No it is not. It is being investigated.

brasty Agree.

Monkeylovesrobot it was an Ethiopian resident whose fridge was faulty and he saw the fire and went to alert all the neighbours he could about the fire. It was in the news.

Justdontgetitatall I agree they are hiding something.

then something internal on a concrete wall

Presumably you're referring to the fridge??

If so, take a look at the various pictures. There's a picture of a flat showing the damage after the fire, where there's clearly a tall fridge right next to the window. Look at the historic Rightmove pictures, some of which clearly show fridges alongside the window and one in particular shows the fridge in front of the window, with its back (pipes and electrics) up against the window.

They said they know where they think the fire started in the building.
They were no reports of an external fire being noticed before the fridge fire so I dont think it started on a balcony.

And if started some where totally separate it have probably leaked out by now

brasty: Domestic fires start, that is the reality. But all that should have happened is that the flat where it started may have been gutted, or at worst that floor.

Exactly. No matter how careful most people are, there is always a small risk of a fire starting, and this risk is obviously increased within a high rise apartment block because there are so many more homes. Which is exactly why minimum fire safety standards should be so, so much higher in high rise blocks than they should be in other types of residential buildings. You can't completely eliminate the risk of a fire starting, but it should never be allowed to spread in such a devastating way.

GhostPower It was also reported that other residents smelt burning plastic and electrics much earlier (25 minutes earlier) than when he alerted his neighbour.

1112 Did they say "they think they know where it started" and that it was a fridge in this man's flat? Some of the earlier reports and eye witnesses actually did say it was a discarded cigarette which hit the neighbours laundry.

If there are an additional 200+ people missing, who are they?
Why do all of these people saying there are 300 missing people never give an example of even one person they know to be missing who isn't on the official list?

Not saying there aren't 300 people in there - I have no way of knowing! - just pointing out that I had noticed this

I haven't read or seen anything about a cigarette burning laundry. It could be that the owner of the fridge did not notice the fire until a while after.

If he had been asleep or had no open doors between him and the fridge, but with open windows in the kitchen where the fire was, it's not hard to believe the smell of burning plastic could have drifted into through someone else's open window before he was aware of it. Especially if he didn't have a working smoke alarm himself.

They said they know the site where they believe the fire started. The cigarette stuff was mentioned at the beginning but no one has said they saw an external fire before that time. What side of the building were the balconies on because in some pics you cant even see any balconies.

And especially if was smoulding before flames were present.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/suspicions-grenfell-tower-fire-cover-10645417

In other countries, high rise towers are able to be evacuated in 30 minutes (much higher than this 24 floors). This is even in brand new towers with sprinkler systems, alarms, fire fighting equipment on each floor etc. When the alarm goes off in the whole building - you evacuate. There is sometimes a 1-2 minute 'pre-alarm' which alerts security to the fire/smoke to see if it is real (i.e. not toast!) before the proper alarm goes off.

What I am trying to say is that even in these towers which are new enough to have containment built into them, the advice is still to evacuate and not to wait indoors.

A single stairway is surely enough to evacuate 24 floors within 30 minutes/one hour? If only everyone had been alerted and if only the advice had been to evacuate. It's so tragic.

"But he added that the section of the Inquiries Act that makes the destruction of documents a criminal offence does not apply until someone has been appointed to chair the inquiry and the terms of reference are set."

11122aa They may know the site where the fire first started, but that site may not be the flat with the fridge.

No, palm tree. It doesn't seem that an hour was enough time, not if the fire started at 12.30 and people were falling unconscious trying to get down the stairs by 1.30.

More people might have been saved if they had all attempted to evacuate, but it doesn't seem that there would have been no fatalities.