Grenfell Tower fire- thread three

[RhythmAndStealth]

Seventeen tragic deaths confirmed so far, six victims provisionally identified.
Number of those who perished feared to rise into triple figures as search proceeds
Search for remaining victims expected to take weeks, sadly it’s considered unlikely that it will be possible to identify all the victims
Names of those still missing start to emerge
Nearly 80 victims being treated across six hospitals, with 15 still in critical care
Hundreds of people displaced and dispossessed, concerned about when and where they will be rehoused

Public inquiry ordered.
Criminal investigation launched.
Serious questions being asked about fire safety regulations, management of social housing, austerity and inequality.
Fire Brigade search of building expected to take weeks due to complexity of building, extent of fire damage and the necessity of undertaking a painstaking fingertip search.

“There must be arrests after this monstrous crime” David Lammy MP

‘Families rehoused last night been left clueless about where to spend next nights. No word from #kccouncil. Chaos.” Emily Maitlis, BBC

“We have to act as if it was our friends, our family in that block” Nick Hurd MP, Policing and Fire Minister

“Someone needs to be held accountable. These deaths could have been prevented.” Local resident to Sadiq Khan

Thread 2
Thread 1

My Tory MP is on The Last Leg.

HelenaDove I really think what you are saying needs to be heard by a wider audience. I'd be more than happy to do the techy side and set one up for you (and give you skype instructions if you don't live in London if you wanted to take it over yourself) if you'd like to write a blog - I hope I haven't overstepped the mark by raising this.

Its a brave Tory who goes on the Last Leg, but I think its a good thing all things considered.

I can highly recommend Joe Halewoods blog @speyejoe. Hes a housing consultant who writes about injustices against private and social tenants.

Thank you!

Monkey Thankyou so much for the offer

DH has said no to Skype though.

But thankyou so much

Monkey do you do Twitter.

I don't (well I have an account, but I have only sent three tweets out)!

Am I the only person who heard the desperate screams of presumably someone who lost a child while the queen was visiting?

Am I the only person who heard the desperate screams of presumably someone who lost a child while the queen was visiting?

No and the BBC have commented on it on their commentary of it throughout the day.

Cyanide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bloody hell.

My sofa is from the 90s.

brexit, I don't want to get in to who is responsible for what politically, but I think it is important that everyone understands how our standards for building safety come about. I said earlier that when in comes to building regulations liability gets complicated. But the process is broadly this:

• government legislates building regulations
• government publishes approved documents on how to meet the building regulations for a variety of buildings (including adherence to specific British Standards)
• design engineering can show a proposed building meets the same standard as approved documents and thus get approval

This process is true of many aspects of design, including fire safety.

Am I the only person who heard the desperate screams of presumably someone who lost a child while the queen was visiting?

No, it was heart wrenching.

To be fair, sky news have commented on it & not tried to minimise it.

HelenaDove - fortunately, if that's the right word, most of the flame retardant coating on your sofa cover fabric will have worn off by now. Unfortunately, it would have got into house dust and then into you. We're all full of flame retardants which the industry say is not a problem. Hundreds/thousands of research papers disagree.

I heard that too user Red. Its heartbreaking.

Kensington  council  should  be  working  flat  out  over  the weekend  to  sort  out  proper  accomodation.

EmilyBiscuit: this is true, as you say broadly. However, many of our regulations for the past 40 years have been made by the EU. British civil servants have mostly just gone along with them and, in my view, are subsequently now chronically under-prepared for establishing new British laws come Brexit.

Also, both British and EU standards-making bodies are heavily influenced by business (who can afford to attend in numbers while consumer protection bodies like Trading Standards mostly can't afford to send anyone).

A lot of the protection bodies dont seem to have any teeth. If they have no real authority or they have to wait until something actually happens its just not enough.

helena, I will try to find the proper research about flame retardants for you. The issue of hydrogen cyanide is one which has been known for years and, in fact, a lot of our understanding about fire and toxicity comes from research done by BRE (used to be a government research centre, now owned by a charitable trust btw). In the mean time, please to not listen to scaremongers. I apologise if it takes a while, I don't have the stuff at my fingertips these days.

Emily no worries and thankyou

I agree that research / protection bodies don't have much say though. They need to get governments to accept their recommendations.

EmilyBiscuit, if you're referring to me as a 'scaremonger' everything I said can be backed up by research and evidence. I have worked several times with BRE in the past on fire safety and cannot recall them ever bringing to anyone's attention the fact that when a sofa burns, hydrogen cyanide is released. This in fact has not been known about until very recently and is still not quite in the public domain. It's true that cyanide has been known to issue from burning substances. However, the scale of it with regard to sofas and mattresses has been, well, let's say somewhat suppressed by vested interests.

There is no 'plan' that kicks in for people in this situation, from personal experience.

jennymor123 - that's a really interesting post, I've heard simar before and hope this gains wider attention.

I saw a speech by a health capgainer that is often discredited as a quack but he spoke about this and said the EU was much better than the us where many materials used in things like children's PJ's are banned in the EU.

Helena sorry yes I know it's complicated, I'm worried this will just turn into a pass the buck and no on responsible when a child knows not to cover a building with somthing flammable.

I agree that researchers need to get their work to the regulators. This is a common weakness with scientists. However, my experience is that government, in the shape of civil servants, is not particularly pro-active in these respects either. Especially when in supporting research that backs the need for more consumer protection but that means more costs to industry.