Grenfell Tower fire- thread three

[RhythmAndStealth]

Seventeen tragic deaths confirmed so far, six victims provisionally identified.
Number of those who perished feared to rise into triple figures as search proceeds
Search for remaining victims expected to take weeks, sadly it’s considered unlikely that it will be possible to identify all the victims
Names of those still missing start to emerge
Nearly 80 victims being treated across six hospitals, with 15 still in critical care
Hundreds of people displaced and dispossessed, concerned about when and where they will be rehoused

Public inquiry ordered.
Criminal investigation launched.
Serious questions being asked about fire safety regulations, management of social housing, austerity and inequality.
Fire Brigade search of building expected to take weeks due to complexity of building, extent of fire damage and the necessity of undertaking a painstaking fingertip search.

“There must be arrests after this monstrous crime” David Lammy MP

‘Families rehoused last night been left clueless about where to spend next nights. No word from #kccouncil. Chaos.” Emily Maitlis, BBC

“We have to act as if it was our friends, our family in that block” Nick Hurd MP, Policing and Fire Minister

“Someone needs to be held accountable. These deaths could have been prevented.” Local resident to Sadiq Khan

Thread 2
Thread 1

Horrific interview on sky news, local man distraught that there were helicopters circling around taking videos of people burning to death

Surprisingly good editorial

www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-the-lessons-we-can-learn-from-the-grenfell-tower-fire-a3566651.html

ES appeal has raised £2m and growing

I just looked back through some of the emails to our HA when the lifts were breaking down almost every other day, leaving anyone unable to use the stairs stranded in their flats - the response from the HA included the phrase:

"all residents and visitors have the choice to use the stairs" and that the building "wasn't designed to be accessible for those with disabilities"

We were not told before we moved in that if you were disabled you should go elsewhere.

Sylvia. I used to work for a major retailer in their property dept. In our case, we had a specialised Fire Safety company who was authorised to sign off on plans and finished works.

I will assume that is an attempt at a joke.

A joke?!?

There have been NYC firefighters interviewed that spoke of having equipment that can go up to the 70th floor. It's clear London did not have the right equipment to help people

And not only should all buildings meet with fire reg standards, these standards should keep pace with advancements in fire safety.

piglet john

Actually I did read that some of the high rise platforms were decomissioned with the cuts, so they would have had "longer ladders and hoses" before

^^ if you read any of the blogs you will see power surges - dangerous electrics, smoke, out of date fire equipment etc etc etc - lifts broken never fixed in a timely fashion etc all on going issues for years.

Again, I realise the extent of the problems of residents not being listened to. BUT. Fires are designed to be contained to the flat where it started. So if there was a power surge, dangerous electrics and a fire started, it would not have spread in the same manner as before the refurbishments and after.

That's all.

Everyone from the lowliest councillor who ignored residents concerns, to the highest minister who refused to address issues, needs to stand up and fucking take the hit.

End of.

gluteus

It's small consolation to a family with young children if a fire starts in and is contained in their flat. They could be asleep and still die.

But at a local level these councils decide what to spend their money on, where to cut costs, or not. Where was the money saved on this cheaper refurb spent? I don't know.

Fire regs are minimum required standards, as are other regulations that control, they are the minimum that must be achieved.

This council's spending history will be scrutinised after this - imagine the reaction if the £1m saved in cheaper cladding was spent on parks and recreation for instance, or leisure facilities or to make the posh parts of town look prettier etc., etc..

'I used to work for a major retailer in their property dept.'

So they built domestic housing?

Boris is a duplicitous arsehole. How anyone gets taken in by his floppy haired bullshit is beyond me. All that brexit bollocks and yet he's back in the cabinet.

Austerity has brought the country to its knees, people's safety shouldn't be compromised for profit or ideology.

The heads of that particular Ha earned £650,000 between four of them last year!

Tell me thats ok??

Actually I did read that some of the high rise platforms were decomissioned with the cuts, so they would have had "longer ladders and hoses" before

Thanks, can't say I'm surprised. They should be able to reach every floor that people are living on.

You asked who signs off on safety certs. I've told you. Did you mean to be so rude? In my experience at least, they were a very very very serious company who wouldn't sign off on a property until they were 100% sure.

I'm sure this has been discussed already but can anyone who still backs May tell me why she didn't meet the residents? We know for a fact now it wasn't a security issue since the queen has been.

So let me put it like this....

All those saying HA are not for profit....does that include ridiculous wages??

The 4 heads of the HA responsible for Grenfell earned £650,000 last year alone.

The residents of Grenfell earnt on average £19,000.

Could some have that wage bill not been spent on decent fire equipment, fire proofing, stopping those fucking power surges???

Oh and I bet those heads of the HA don't have tolive in dangerous blocks of flats!

I don't think I am being rude.

When I was asking about fire inspections, I was referring to the regulation of domestic properties.

I'm not making any allegation against some company that you've worked with. Why on earth would I? I'm just asking for information on the law around domestic properties.

Good grief.

This from a BBC article:

A 2012 report by the British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association (BAFSA) concluded that fire sprinklers could be retrofitted with tenants in place at a cost of about £1,150 a flat. Since the 24-storey Grenfell Tower contained 120 flats, it would have worked out at £138,000.
That's significantly less than the £2.6m spent on the cladding and replacement windows.

MyOther, the argument is (and I'm firmly in the anti-TM camp btw) that she only met officials as she was being briefed on the situation, and she was arranging things that only a PM can arrange. I hadn't seen anyone say officially that it was a security issue, that was just some speculation before she gave her reasoning.

Brexit, I get what you mean about the hoses, but I also get PigletJohn's misunderstanding. It was just be of those things, really, that you can get with the written word.

these standards should keep pace with advancements in fire safety.

Not only that, they should also keep pace with changes to building practices (such as using flammable materials inside cladding systems). A review of building regulations was recommended by the final Lakanal House report in 2013. It hasn't been done. I understand that it hasn't even been started.

This type of cladding has been banned (I believe) in Germany and the US. Why not here?