Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

[RhythmAndStealth]

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

to all those affected and everyone helping.

We had some false hope about my dear friend today. Stirrings that she was in hospital with her mother.

She's not.

I can't sleep. If her life has ended, I can't bear to think about her last moments.

I can't look at the news. That fucking shell of a building.

She lived on floor 20. We heard the firefighters (god bless them) reached that floor after lunchtime today. I don't believe anyone has survived, but we don't have confirmation.

Please keep the victims in your thoughts. It is the most unthinkable way to go.

I can't think beyond her right now; I certainly can't think politics. I hope tomorrow brings some news for us - at least some kind of certainty.

And from what I know of this building - it was not a place for 'very rich people indeed'. The vulnerable have been let down again

For fucks sake

Thierry im so sorry

So sorry to hear that Thierry

Thierry

No words but praying for your friend and all who were in that building.

Rhythm,
Absolutely correct .

YY Rhythm On BBC News just before 3pm the newsreader asked someone if it was down to modern lifestyles and ppl using too much electrical equipment like smartphones and computers. I was

Thierry

The bottom line here is that a fire alarm did not go off.

Thierry

I have 2 smoke alarms in my house,one is downstairs in the hall and the other upstairs on the landing.
I live in a tiny 2 bed cottage and these alarms cost about £20 each and look like a cheap bit of White plastic stuck on my ceiling but looks are very deceiving as If I overcook anything by a couple of minutes then the smoke alarm goes off and it is very loud and doesn't stop until i open all the windows and front door till the air is clear.
So what happened to the Smoke Alarms in the 600 person tower block ?

Thierry I am so sorry.

I'm so sorry to hear that Thierry

The bottom line here is that a fire alarm did not go off.

I think it's a lot more complicated than that. Why did the building go up so quickly? Why weren't there adequate fire escapes? Why weren't residents concerns addressed sooner? Etc. So many, many questions. Fire alarms are just a part of it and for many people 40 pounds isn't something they can afford to spend on fire alarms. I have heard witness accounts of their own fire alarms going off but it was the middle of the night, the fire spread very quickly and people just didn't know what to do. Do you go out into the thick smoke and climb down 20 flights of stairs with young kids or stay inside and hope for the best? I have no doubt there will be a very thorough investigation. I hope lessons are learnt.

I live in an old building. If I run the toaster and kettle together the circuit breaker goes off. It is true that older buildings weren't designed for us running so many appliances off them. This will be especially true if the building was overcrowded. BUT it was known this building had electrical problems a long time ago, it should have been dealt with as a priority over the cosmetic stuff.

So what happened to the Smoke Alarms in the 600 person tower block

I could be wrong (please correct me if I am!) but from what I understand is that they didn't have a communal fire alarm.
Each flat is self contained, and they have their own fire alarm. If a fire goes off in their flat, they're told to get out, alert the fire services and they come out and put it out.
Other residents are told to stay put where they are until they are rescued.
Hideous.

Comments about H&S are a little bit misguided.

The review we had done on an 8 unit block (4 stories high) was actually lacking. My Dad asked me to review it and mark suggestions. I read the report and called the local fire department, asking for them to come to the building to advise us on what changes were needed.

What started as a wishy washy review by a H&S consultant ended up as a detailed list pin pointing exactly where the gaps were. Simple things such as double glazing vs single glazing, the type of paint used, the seal on a door and the alert system being on the mains and a back up are all extended important and there is no legislation demanding that these simple steps are implemented by everyone.

I'm still flabbergasted that they didn't have functioning alarms. We have smoke and carbon monoxide alarms which are on the mains and a back up generator. How was the hallway not painted with fire retardant paint? Why only one exit? Why didn't the exit have self closing fire doors?

Just because you are poor doesn't mean that you should be living in a building that is unsafe. The whole point of the benefits system is to redistribute wealth and provide the poor with the basics. The basics are a safe home.

Oh Thierry. I'm so very sorry. Still hoping against hope for good news for you.

As for you, user123456 or whoever you are - I can't figure out if you are goady or extremely naive, but how on earth can you think 'very very wealthy' people live in £250,000 flats? In London?? It beggars belief. I know that that is utterly laughable, and I live on the other side of the planet.

Stop trying to pretend that this tragic event, and the way it'll play out over the next few months and years, is not at least partially about class and low socioeconomic status. It's offensive and dangerous.

Tenants do not get a say over who does work in their home. When an HA gives a tender to a company that company sees the HA as the customer NOT the tenant.

HelenaDove speaks a lot of sense.

Most of the people who live in these types of buildings get very little say over their living conditions. They have no leverage as they don't own anything, they don't have money to give kickbacks to their powerful mates in construction and local government (and don't have any powerful mates anyway), they didn't go to school with any politicians, many of them speak English as a second language, they don't have the level of education required to mount an articulate, compelling argument against the HA and their lawyer cronies, they can't afford any legal representation and oh, Legal Aid is too busy, come back later...the list goes on.

And on top of all that, they can't just pick up their families and move because hey, they're living in a city with (arguably) the biggest housing crisis on the planet. There is literally nowhere else to go, and certainly nowhere else close enough to allow them to keep their jobs, and keep their children in the same schools.

So they battle on, and try not to think about the fact that they, and their children, are living in a death trap. Because they just don't have an alternative.

Do you really think, user123456, that this is how life is for 'very very wealthy' individuals? Do you really think that what has happened to these poor people could just as easily have happened in a building full of High Net Worth individuals?

That is an insult to the people who have lost their lives in this absolute horror. Shame on you.

Does anybody know of an online way to donate cash?
My sincere condolences to all affected by this awful event.

Yes .
There are many just giving pages that already have raised thousands of pounds.
If you live in London you can donate clothing, food water, accommodation etc.

koala I agree. Tenants have no say in how their building is managed. Tenants with money have the option to move. Those who are tenant of a HA have no say or any ability to change their situation.

As for comments about insurance of buildings with this material used as cladding, most government buildings are self insured. That means the normal rules that apply to commercial insurance don't apply. It's how you get away with making poor decisions.

Cladding on a building is the last thing I would ever allow when they don't have proper alarms. I have refrained from saying this but I'll just say it. I hope it's exposed that the officials accepted money to turn a blind eye and I hope the officals who accepted money and the persons who paid are charged with murder of these people.

user-whatever - DH and a mate bought a 2-bed flat in 2001 for £250K. In zone 5.

How can you possibly think a flat in central London, going for £250K is 'very expensive'?

You're wrong, simple as that. It's dirt cheap.

Can't work out why you would be trying to push this line...

Thierry

kittycat I emailed the local mosque Islamic universal association and St clements church and asked if they were assisting those affected. I expect they are assisting them. When they eventually answer my email I will donate to them.

Thinking of you and your friends and loved ones Thierry

There are a couple of fundraising efforts backed by existing organisations. (So credible and with an administrative structure in place.)

www.latymer.org.uk/grenfelltowerrelieffund.htm

www.dispossessedfund.org.uk