Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

[RhythmAndStealth]

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

to all those affected and everyone helping.

A quick look at some old annual reports indicates that the Lancaster West estate (where Grenfell is) was only 22.9% homeowner in 2014 - the rest was social housing.

Strange question and I'm sorry if it's inappropriate, but in these big big tower block blazes, for example the one in Dubai where thankfully no one perished, is that because the fire damage is mostly to the external of the building? They seem like such big fires but the fatalities remain lower than you might expect for such a big blaze. I am really hoping the number of fatalities does not rise much more :(

The tragedy has yet to unfold.

This twitter thread made for some very interesting reading. It talks about a tragedy in Lambeth, and how that was exploited for profits. [By a Labour-led council, so not a dig at Tories].

I can't sleep, whenever I try to I just start weeping again for all those poor people and the horror of it all.

It almost feels disrespectful to switch off from it.

Those responsible will pay.

I hope you're right Fauche. The fact that survivors were being led out well into the day today was both surprising and hopeful.

Residents who lived on lower floors and managed to get out with their families have said that a fire alarm did not go off and they were alerted by other residents who were awake at the time.
Many of the residents who were awake at that time were muslims as it's Ramadan and they made the first call .If they were not up then there probably would be many more fatalities.

I have to say, from the perspective of someone that has spent a lot of time involved in local council planning issues, that part of me suspects that this fire was a consequence of the dire state of the political system at local level.

One thing that really stuck out to me was the state of the access to the tower block. When you have a unit that houses upwards of 120 people on such a small footprint, you really need a two lane access road or significant vacant green or hardcore space around the building.

And it's issues like this, things that are perceived as being minor concerns, that are just so disregarded when it comes to local council planning consent.

Yet we have a situation where decisions are made and policies and tenders scrutinised by people who just turn up to committees and don't bother to read the documentation. We got rid of stringent local council building control departments years ago. Once upon a time, you used to have a local council building works official who would turn up to a development out of the blue, and check that you were doing what you said you were doing. All that's gone now.

And as a result, we have buildings that are not fit for human habitation. Work is shoddy; corners are cut; and no one ever looks at the bigger picture.

These tower blocks should have gone back in the 90s when there was less pressure on the housing market, land values were lower and many socially-housed inhabitants actually wanted to move out of the capital (the waiting list for socially-housed transfers out of Southwark to non-London boroughs was five years long back in the late 90s). It has been known for years that public housing in high rise tower blocks does not work. For such substantial housing units, you really need a professional management team that will run the building properly with a representative on-site 24/7 and systems that ensure fire prevention protocols are regularly updated and in place ... and that requires a lot of annual expense.

But it is all make-do botch jobs, carrying on by the skin of your teeth, grabbing money where you can, and nobody is working towards a future vision of how we really should be living in the 21st century.

Give it five days max, and it's all move on. Flowers and candles again.

That is the real Reality. Just look at Borough Market and all that.

Feck sake. Keyboard warriors is right , and social media too.

From a bit of reading around, I think a lot of the bigger tower fires - e.g. Dubai - might have had better fire protection internally, particularly in the form of sprinklers. So whilst the outside went up, the inside was better protected.

soda,
I don't agree with you.

soda

Then you be the one to keep it alive.

Instead of being pessimistic, be the change you want to see. Organise. Write to your MP. Make petitions. Start a protest group.

You can't just sit here whining, 24 hours after this happening, that people don't care enough. People DO care. They are bringing water and offering their beds.

If you don't like the response, show other people the right way to respond.

I don't have any less sympathy or horror on behalf of anyone caught up in this terrible event, rich or poor, but please don't make it a political situation relating to council tenants, because it just isn't. This was the home of some very wealthy people indeed.

ODFOD

Plus, residents not being able to mount legal challenges due to cuts in legal aid. I just don't know where to go with this anger.

I predict riots within the month. NI plus this - powder keg.

Feck sake. Keyboard warriors is right , and social media too.

It took me half an hour this evening to C&P and modify one email to send to six relevant MPs, Sadiq Khan and K&C council.

You could try that if you don't feel discussion is for you?

Or, being so very opposed to "keyboards" as you are, you could bin yours and just, you know, shut the fuck up?

Personally I prefer to work out how we can all apply our minor pressure in the right places.

There's nothing wrong with flowers and candles as a public response to a terrorist attack.

The response to this will take years, you all know how deflection works surely.

That is why I am sceptical, not a pessimist, more a realist.

No soda. You're bloody rude. And sneery.

If everyone looks away, nothing changes.

I think I am missing your point Soda.

If a similar event was happening to me, I would want other ordinary people to be asking questions and discussing it as part of their response, regardless of what the government response was.

venus please take it easy. It's not disrespectful to switch it off, especially if it's having such a bad impact on you. You don't need to torture yourself. It is a horrible horrible situation, heartbreaking and I too have found it hard to stop thinking about because i often get fixated on certain news incidents too but remember the incredible work of our fire services and the local communities. Maybe you could also see if there are any local communities near you organising care packages, or if you have amazon prime, sending support that way has been recommended. It might help you, as I don't think watching the news is helping so much. Sorry if that seems patronising, I just know how I can be with certain disasters too

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4604942/KATIE-HOPKINS-Jail-blame-Grenfell-fire.html

Apologies for both daily fail link and Katie Hopkins, but a good article all the same.

The rich/poor divide continues. This better not be swept under the carpet and lessons will be learned crap.

No one listened to the residents. And they paid with their lives.

soda I also count myself as a realist. That's why I want to see people taking realistic steps, like putting pressure on politicians. If we lose hope, what is the point?

I said what I said on an open forum.

Free speech is gone too now is it.

soda

Stop making this about you. Have some dignity fgs. People are dead.

soda some of us have been trying to draw attention to these issues for a bloody long time.

@Venusflytwat , @Fauchelevent is right. Of course it isn't disrespectful to switch off. In some ways it's more respectful, given how prurient some of the coverage is.

Make a deal with yourself that you'll donate, or become a Shelter supporter or email your MP or something as a tribute, but after you've slept