Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

[RhythmAndStealth]

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

to all those affected and everyone helping.

Is the real death toll being hidden as a slow release of information, ie. a drip feed? To dilute the true horror of it for some reason?

We are on shaky ground government-wise at present. Everybody, rich or poor seems to be agreeing that this tragedy is a political issue, this is to do with austerity, the housing crisis, cuts etc.
If the headline on Wed morning had been (eg.) '200 dead in deadly tower block', people would have been rightly baying for blood and immediate action, ie. someone to fall on their sword.

Scaffold alone would cost between 700k to 1m . It costs me 8-10 k per Victorian terraced property (back, front and bridge above the roof)

Surely it's just that they don't want to make even an estimated guess and be wrong. I don't think that is unreasonable?

As a mother and a trained (not currently practicing) fire safety risk assessor, I am so livid.
Standard fire safety recommendations have been ignored. The change in the law in 2005 when the regulatory reform fire safety order (RRFSO) came into place, removed responsibility of fire assessment from local fire safety officers (fire brigade) producing a 'fire safety certificate' for premises and instead placed responsibility on the 'controllers of premises' (landlords) is flawed in that they are expected to self govern and as is clear here, they are not capable as 'cash is king' not life.
The law need changing back.
Such assholes. I can't even speak about this.

Seems to me there is some sort of a lid being kept on the real aftermath of this, lives lost I mean.
Yes, I think the news agencies have been told not to let on how many (estimated) people have perished - it's probably a horrifyingly high number.
In other disasters they often come out with a number of 'missing' - the reports I'm seeing is just saying 'dozens'.
Absolutely tragic and totally preventable.

Not knowing full spec I can assure you 10m is very possible. It's London after all. I tender , instruct and mange these contracts , sign off and pay for works every single day .

the Mail is using this as an opportunity to attack buffoon boris. This is probably just part of the internecine warfare within the Conservative party as they battle for the next temporary P.M.

video.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2017/06/15/4107620733507189687/640x360_MP4_4107620733507189687.mp4

"Boris Johnson has been slammed after footage resurfaced of him telling a Labour politician to 'get stuffed' after he questioned swingeing fire service cuts.

The video was recorded during a heated debate on frontline services in a meeting of the London Assembly in 2013.

It shows then-London Mayor Mr Johnson telling Labour Assembly member Andrew Dismore to 'get stuffed' after he accused him of 'lying to the people of London'."

"Boris’s cuts in 2014 saw the closure of 10 fire stations, the loss of 552 firefighters’ jobs and the removal of 27 engines. "

Fair enough Pfor - or it would be if the work had been done well...which, obviously, remains to be seen.

I have a suspicion that the next numbers update might be a big "x number missing" - it sounds like they've worked out who is in hospital and are now trying to get the families of the still missing worked out.

It's nowhere near 72k per flat. Even with the additional work. We worked on a complete refurb from business to residential a couple of years ago. 23 apartments and the entire job was less than a million. High end flats too not HA standard and that was in london.

Even if you allow 1/2 a million for that bit it's still a massive budget even allowing another 5k per flat for a new heating system.

The building industry is rotten to the core. We won't touch public stuff as it's always bent and doesn't pay enough. Not to subbies anyway but the companies that win the work can certainly look after their directors well enough.

When we did some school work during the last recession there were more managers than tradesmen on the job from start to finish. You can't get away with shit like that on private sector stuff.

To those who's partners are builders/architects - were you aware of this article? It was about fire stoppers being temporarily removed to put in pipe work.

www.insidehousing.co.uk/business/asset-management/fire-safeguards-in-grenfell-were-temporarily-removed-during-refurbishment/7020464.article

Not even arguing with you no point. Obviously you and your tradesman dp know better about commercial deals than I do. I suggest you ask a leaseholder in London ! How much is the major works bill they get every 5-7years Inc fire risk assessment works then come back to me

SilverHawk that is shocking. I was wondering why some sources were reporting 1-2 bedroom flats whereas others were reporting 3-4 bedroom flats.

How can they cram people in like sardines like that?

They have named a 5 year old boy as the 2nd confirmed identified death. Heartbreaking.

www.leaseholdknowledge.com/george-osbornes-former-nanny-faceless-100000-bills-homelessness-refusing-pay-major-works-leasehold-ex-council-flat

I'm another one who thinks that the death toll numbers are being minimised, earlier today the BBC said that 78 or so people were in hospital but many more than that were unaccounted for, I can see the death toll hitting triple digits

People in the area are starting to get pissed off, understandably so.

Those are the new flats on the lower levels

You can find the full details of the planning application here the picture is the office level which was converted

I don't think the real death toll is being hidden at all. I think most people are expecting it to be triple figures. They haven't recovered bodies yet and they probably don't know exactly how many people were in the building. People had visitors, there were probably some sofa surfers, others may have been away. They will have to match up reports of people missing against remains found. Some of the building won't be accessible until made as safe as it can be.

www.theguardian.com/money/2005/may/14/housingpolicy.society

The building industry is rotten to the core - much of it, yes. Particularly that which is essentially land grabbing "property development".

Absolutely doesn't let the Government off the hook, especially seeing as they're often one and the same.

Oh okay, so it's not like they'd carved up existing flats to squeeze more people into them. But still. And there were large families living in the upper floors because some of them are being reported missing.

I agree, Chaz - I don't think anyone, in particular people with connections to the building, have ever been under any illusion that the death figure would remain in double figures. There would have been no point in attempting a cover-up.

According to the plans...The original 1 bed flats were about 52sqm, the 2 beds 75sqm and the new 4 beds were 80-85ish.

Pfor I wish you tendered works to the companies we subcontract too. And you can't compare the cost of a small residential property to the cost of a massive project like this. It's like comparing the cost of buying a kilo of sand for a kids sandpit to buying 20 tonnes of the stuff.

I don't know the full extent of the works done. But for 8.7 million you would expect it to at least be firestopped.

Frouby, I understand the general purpose of cladding but I'm not clear why this particular building got it. Is it possible, as some are saying, that it was for "cosmetic" reasons?

Viking no i dont Ive just been checking the #grenfelltower hashtag regularly and found that. I dont think the writer of that statement and the tweeter are the same person.