Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

[RhythmAndStealth]

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

to all those affected and everyone helping.

Hotdrop. I've addressed the house price stuff upthread - there is no house in that building on record as selling for anything even close to that.

It's also crass as hell to keep going on about it like it invalidates what happens to these people or that they were left in substandard overcrowded accommodation because they were poor.

Thierry, I'm sorry for your loss.

Thierry sending condolences, I heard about your friend on the TV I think - what a senseless loss

The grief will be hard to come to terms with when there's so much going on and the media really needs to take a long hard look at themselves and realise the people they're talking about are human beings. Any of us are a step away from needing a HA - we've literally just seen hundreds made homeless overnight. There are many new developments with a mixture of private and council tenants run by HAs who make appalling decisions to cut costs.

I wondered the same re insurance GreenTulips - KCTMO have this on their website

Our buildings are currently insured under Policy No: 267955, which is placed with Ocaso SA UK Branch. We confirm that the premiums have been paid up to date on this policy. The next policy renewal date is 1 April 2018.

I have to admit I'm in the industry and hadn't heard of them but a quick google isn't...glowing. I'm looking through the policy T&Cs

HelenaDove - your post at 16:05:22, I'd love to see if that turns out to be the case - vexatious is the exact word used to describe ME patients who worked to expose this.

RhythmandStealth because no relief was available.

My friend's dh's unit was meant to be going in, but was told to stand down as not required.

Pic of the tweet from helenadove's link

The reason why fire deaths have gone down.

I live at the top of a Central London high rise and have done for 13 years. It's 90% council tenants and upper floors are mostly private flats like mine. Tower blocks aren't the hell hole some people on here have been describing them as - ours is friendly, well managed, full of different nationalities and we all rub along nicely together (the muslims have invited the whole estate to celebrate Ramadan with them in a picnic tonight). The private owners tend to be professionals (doctor, dentist, psychologist, academics designers, entrepreneurs. Two bed flats go for £500K and one has recently been sold to someone who got a mortgage (though these are hard to come by). The majority of flats in our part of town are bought in cash and people buy on our block because other two beds in the area go for £800K minimum.

Daphne22 It should be illegal to build Tower blocks, the rich wouldn't like it.
What? What about the Barbican? What about all those luxury skyscrapers in New York? Hong Kong?
Granted, they aren't likely to have been built on a budget, but it's palpably ridiculous to say the rich don't like tower blocks.

Mane,
*On the other hand, if the flats are fireproof for one hour (which they clearly weren't at grenfell).

Why stay in your flat if it is impossible to rescue you?*

Presumably, if it's impossible for the emergency services to rescue you, then it's going to be impossible to get out of the flat? You think?

Bloke on Channel 4 news asking why media wasnt interested before the tragedy. I suspect Grenfell tenants have likely been trying to get the media interested for years.

I know of someone who has been collating stuff about another HA and he has spent NINE years e mailing media like BBC Watchdog Zilch replies. Programmes like this Rough Traders and the one that bloke Dominic Littlewood used to do are only interested when home OWNERS are being screwed over If its tenants they just arent interested.

Apparently, firefighters are being told to write their name and number on the back of their helmets, before entering the building. This is not normal practice, but to assist identification in the event of the building collapsing.

Thanks Witch I am shit at screenshots.

^ 'reason why fire deaths have gone down'

the cynical nasty evil bastards

Thierry

HI

I have had a quick skim through the thread, but was wondering if anyone had heard about the mother, who has 6 children, got out with all of them, but by the time she got to the bottom, she had lost 2 of them.

It was mentioned in one interview and I haven't found anything else, I was hoping she had been reunited with them

What do you mean 'keep going on about it' - I've only posted twice in response to inaccuracies I've read - tower blocks being terrible, the price of flats in the blocks, the owners being HNW individuals. I'm just trying to clarify things as I live in a similar block. Get off my back!!'

I didn't mean just you but a previous poster went on about it too.

There is no evidence that there were any flats in that building which sold for close to that amount

The vast majority of the estate is social housing.

Whether there are a few private owners or not does not change that fact that when decisions are being made about the building as a whole it is thought about as social housing. That is the point everyone is making, and it is relevant.

I posted this up thread, but I want to reiterate - a 1hr fire wall will NOT always protect you for an hour. It will protect for 1 hour under standard test conditions, provided it is installed properly. But if the installation is poor quality, or the fire is bigger than the standard fire it will not protect for an hour.

I lived on the tenth floor of a fourteen storey building in my early twenties when I was teaching abroad. We had a couple of small earthquakes. I remember my neighbour crying but I didn't give a shit. Fast forward seven years and I had a three year old and a newborn. We had a series of tremors and people were saying it might lead to a big earthquake. Dh said that was unscientific but as I was now a mother I was terrified. I didn't know how I'd get two small kids down the stairs in time if dh was out. I actually had nightmares about it. It's unbearable to think of the mothers who were in that position in Grenfell towers, not knowing how to get their kids to safety, and what is even more devastating is that this tragedy is completely man made and avoidable.

thierry I am so sorry. I saw a picture of your friend on the news, she looked beautiful.

I think of that family sobeyondthehills, I haven't heard anything though. I can't even imagine what it must be like for families where they didn't all make it out.

A five year old missing, who lost hold of an adult's hand in the smoke

That's absolutely heartbreaking. I have a 5yo, I can't even begin to imagine how helpless and desperately sad the family are feeling right now.

This is just so so wrong.

I think I saw that picture of your friend too Thierry, on the BBC website, she had a lovely smile.

Thierry I am so sorry for your loss.