Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

[RhythmAndStealth]

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

to all those affected and everyone helping.

Eh challenged, I provided a link and DID fucking mention that LA residents would be as poor as myself. Wind yer neck in.

I think when it gets investigated it will come down the the wrong cladding being specified. Of the two types made be Reynobond there was a composite board with Polyethylene and one with mineral wool.

I bet it would take the temperatures of a welding torch to get the latter one to char even whereas the other has now been seen in more then one vid to be the best way of getting the place to go up like a bonfire night rocket.

That original specification was what was wrong here.

I rather expect it will now now be removed from other builds in due course lets hope it dosen't take to long before that work starts.

That is most automatic systems of course. You can have manual ones, and ones which automatically flood a whole area too.

He must have had no idea of what would happen.....This is why fire education needs to improve.

But it seems it was the authorities too that had no idea what would happen as it seems several different authorities didn't realise the danger of flammable materials being wrapped around a building! If the fire authority didn't notice the risk themselves, how could they have have "educated" the residents???

There is no such thing as a small fire though, people do not understand the dynamics of fire - this may need to be reiterated time and again because it's so vital that first thing you do in a fire is alert people.

You cannot predict fire.

Surely badbunny you realise that alerting people there is a fire in the first instance is a little different to predicting building cladding becoming a chimney and knowing internal fire safety measures were inaccessible / unusable?

I rather expect it will now now be removed from other builds in due course lets hope it dosen't take to long before that work starts.

And in the meantime, the advice has got to be to get the hell out of such a building whenever ever the smallest of fires starts and to get "all building" alarms installed as soon as possible.

It's crazy to rely on individual smoke alarms in each flat. Smoke from a fire on a low floor will take ages to activate an alarm in a top floor flat, by which time, the escape route is likely to be blocked by smoke/fire.

In the event of fire, time is of the essence. So no alert for anyone is reprehensible. If they were alerted immediately they would have gotten out with minimal casualties.

I really feel for the guy whose kitchen it (maybe) started in. No-one could have predicted the speed the fire moved. Who would have foreseen that a small kitchen fire on the 4th floor would destroy an entire tower block and kill people 20 floors above? Certainly not your average resident with no expert knowledge of how fire spreads. I would also have assumed the fire brigade would easily put it out, but I might be out of my house for a while so I should throw a few things in a bag. And I thought he had alerted his immediate neighbours? Poor man, he's going to have so much survivor guilt either way.

Agreed user and Badbunny - I agree with your latest post too about alarms - why was this buildings alarm system not working throughout and what happened with the dry risers?

coral I'm kind of shocked that he didn't just get out. How many times was that drilled into us at school? Leave and don't take anything.

I live in my husband's home country where the fire safety education is terrible, so I have told him 100 times today, if there is a fire, just leave.

I also feel I should make everyone aware that the "stay in place" protocol is very common in large public buildings too - airports, hospitals etc have evacuation strategies based on some people staying in place at first (it is called phased evacuation).

TM meeting emergency services but not residents.

BigYellow Yep - that's where my thinking was going too. It's just drilled into me.

Badbadbunny Yes in that fire, that it seems was unforeseen, it would be the right advice but in a building thats NOT encased in a flammable materiel that advice would be wrong as per the numbers of people exiting the building versus the number of firefighters trying to get in up the same stairs.

This yesterday was a totally different ball game that no one it seems foresaw happening:(

They are some very very angry people on Victoria Derbyshire just now

What do you mean? How they are viewed??

As scum, as troublemakers who should be grateful for a roof over their heads regardless of the condition of that roof.

Well, I sure as hell will be getting my ass out God forbid I'm ever in the unfortunate position to need to. Not a hope in hell would I stay.

In the event of the fire being contained anyway, what harm was there in people getting out?

Leaving them to the mercy of fire is insanity.

There will probably have been multiple failings for this to happen.

There are behavioural issues, (one next door neighbour who described people bringing suitcases down the emergency stairwell!)

Keepings firedoors wedged open is another one. Corridors which should be clear with people's stuff left in. (I have moaned about having to remove doormats but it makes sense as they are combustibles.)

But the major lessons will be in the inherent safety. It's an unprecedented event. That's not to say issues were not indicated beforehand in behaviour of cladding in previous fires for example and the Lakanal House fire.

Oh Jesus, 17 now confirmed dead and still expected to rise.

The tower block was a deathtrap and the poor residents had voiced their fears over and over and over. Fucking greedy people from the government ministers down to the property managers and building companies. Whose bloody idea was it to it prioritise the aesthetics of the building to appease the multimillionaires to give them a nicer view from their palaces over the safety of the tenents who actually live in it? So angry as this could have been avoided and those responsible should be charged with manslaughter.

And what about all the new build sky risers that are in the planning. We are protesting about them here but planners are giving permission left right and centre. We are told new building regs mean new builds will be safe. Don't believe a word. Cheap shit plastic covering them all! Do you think they are choosing to use the more expensive but safer filling? Of course not.

17 now confirmed dead, predicted to increase. What an utter, utter scandal! :(

Toast I'm watching too.

ToastDemon I'm watching, if what that lady reported is true then this gets even worse, if that is at all possible.

Theresa May has had a 'private' visit to Grenfell.

She did not speak to victims, survivors or aid workers.

How much more contempt can this government show?

Toast I'm watching too, did I hear correctly when she said that the fire brigade didn't even reach the tower until 4:25am?