Sally Clarke has died....

[ZZMum]

Poor poor woman... how awful for her family after all they went thru...

Can't do that (address the subtleties issue) without bringing in the other thread, Psycho, which I feel is probably inappropriate on this one.

I believe i did answer this.

I said it could stem from many things: fear of the unknown, fear of chgange, ignorance, misinfirmation, wrongly held beliefs (for a variety of rasons), historical context, arrogance and in some cases hatred.

As i said i don't feel dicrimination of dicbabled people stems ffrom ahtred. Do You?

Bring up the sublties I have ignored on this thtead only then.

Actually, I do think fear of disability is related to hatred. Some people have a real problem with any form of disability which is unattractive. And I suspect this is to do with a gut-level, primitive response of disgust, probably from those who would have killed any disabled members of the tribe back in pre-history. Pathetic, wrong, stupid but I don't think you can say it doesn't exist.

Doesn't fear breed hatred?
Hate isn't well thought out or rational, but a strong emotion usually based on fear.

NurseryJo no-one is dissing Sally Clarke. As far as I can see there's an extremely interesting and important intellectual discussion going on about the treatment of women by our society and in particular the medical profession.

Why the sense of personal insult. I don't see it myself.

I do feel a bit uncomfortable bickering with Psycho on a Sally Clarke thread. But I think there is a valid argument to be had.

However Psycho, I can't be arsed to go through the whole thead and pick out your posts, it would take too long. If you really want me to do it, because you're concerned that you're being misread, then I'll do it at a later date. Just not now, I'm too tired. Sorry I know it's annoying when you feel you want someone to explain themselves, but I know it would take me more time than I'm prepared to spend on it right now.

Agree with Spidermama - we are discussing some of the issues that may lie behind the terrible tragedy that overtook Sally.

Edam, some fear may led to hatred.

Some may be low level discomfort.

I don't think all discrimation of disbaled people stems from hatred.

For me hatred is a very extreme form of laothing that I do not assume poeple with fear and ignorance of women/disbaled poele necessarily feel, amd is not a necessary(althougth it may be)outcome of ignorance, fear of changre,etc.

I'm beginning to think what we're arguing about is a definition of hatred.

it seems to come back to some believing that ignorance and fear will ineveitably lead to discrimination based on hatred.

I do not think this is the case. And I hope have explained why.

Dh off the phone anyway Caligula.

I do think it is slighty unfair to make personal attacks and comments such as you have without being prepared to expalin and back tham up.

I actually do belive that I have been trying to follow the arguemnt, answer the points and make my own.

maybe i was too focused on making my own.

See, us psychologists are so self reflective

You did seem to make it very personally, I wonder why? some self reflection of your own maybe??

Anyway it's late, so will have to be left, but I'll always wonder what I didn't answer.

I was trying you know, even psychos aren't perfect

I am a regular, and can prove it if needs be. My Dh works with Sally's husband and I would kindly request that you all think seriously about what you post before you do as he (and his family) are going through hell right now.

I sincerly hope have not posted anything to cause upset or offence to the Clarke family.

I did say a few times that I felt for their tragedy, but that sentiment probaly got lost in the debate.

All I am saying is that I have read a few posts on this thread tha would cause deep hurt to the family if they read them. Please remeber that although this is a forum open for debate, it is also very public and chances are the family will stumble upon it sooner or later.

PT. It must be awful for them. I expect they probably find it easiest if they read nothing in the press about it.
If people discuss the reasons the problems arose though then good can come of these things.
I would very much doubt it was anything much to do with sexism or misogyny.

I haven't seen anything on this thread that could be seen as other than sympathetic and supportive.

Do you know them?

PT, that's a shame as I was thinking earlier how I hoped her family would see this thread so as to find small comfort in the outpouring of support for them.

There are threads about this all over the internet and in the papers. Debate is impossible to stop in a free world and I'm sure they being lawyers wouldn't want to censor all discussion. They may however not even want it reported she died and not one word said about it. Even starting a thread with this topic heading might well annoy them.