Priests to control school admissions: Discuss

[TheKingIsInTheAltogether]

So the Catholic Education Service has devised a new admissions process for its schools putting the decision on whether a family is considered "practicing" or not in the hands of its priests. The priests will grant a Certificate of Catholic Practice to families who they deem to be following Canon Law, but are able to apply some professional discretion.

Families will need one of these certificates if they want a place at an oversubscribed catholic school.

However the Schools Adjudicator has thrown a spanner in the works by declaring the new process in breach of the Admissions Code, and that decision is going to be challenged in the courts ...
www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/20/catholic-church-court-priests-faith-school-places

It seems to me that the Catholic Church is actively promoting its schools as academically desirable and using that as a carrot to coerce all Catholics into following Canon Law to the letter. In areas where schools are very oversubscribed, families will inevitably need to compete for these certificates and the bar for obtaining them can be raised at the priest's discretion. Families won't dare miss Mass in case their faith is considered questionable.

I can't believe anyone would think that an acceptable admissions system!

Suppermummy, to be clear the rules say they're not allowed to teach creationism (or anything else pseudo-scientific) as fact in science lessons. It can still be taught in RE.

So I've just looked at the admissions criteria for our local oversubscribed Catholic primary and secondary schools. There has been no change since my DCs applied and no mention of this CCP. There is a form for the priest to sign as there has always been for many years. This is to confirm the child has been baptised, attends mass and if so how often they attend. The admissions criteria are very clear that priority will be given to baptised children who are practicing Catholics.

Also I'm not sure a priest would know of everyones sexual orientation or whether they were divorced or a single parent. The Catholic church I have experienced really is not that intrusive. I had my first DC baptised and accepted at a catholic school all while being an unmarried mother and no one batted and eyelid.

PhiloDox

First holy communion for Catholics is usually in yr3/4 so aged 7/8. There's a totally different Sacrament called Confirmation which is generally at about 14/15. The Church of England has similar terminology but they're entirely different things. Catholic kids aren't expected to make their minds up about anything at 7.

FarAwayHills, how often do they have to attend church to get the priest to sign the form? Would once every few months be enough or does it have to be every week, and for how many years? When you say 'practising catholic' what exactly does that mean and how do they determine you are practising it?

TheKingIsInTheAltogether, so you could have a creationist school, with a creationist ethos and teach creationism during creationism RE class, but as long as its not referred to during Science lessons?

Suppermummy, essentially yes, although Creationism isn't a religion in itself To be designated as a faith school, and therefore allowed to use faith criteria in admissions, it would have to be a recognised religion e.g. Christian, Muslim etc, but just have an ethos at the conservative end of the spectrum.

A practicing Catholic would be someone who attends mass regularly. The priest signs the form to confirm this and specifies the frequency of church attendance - every week, two weeks, 3 weeks, monthly etc.

So I've just looked at the admissions criteria for our local oversubscribed Catholic primary and secondary schools. There has been no change since my DCs applied and no mention of this CCP

It's new, and some Dioceses will have rolled it out quicker than others. The adjudicator's judgement says the Diocese of Westminster directed all of its schools to use it for 2017 admissions. Don't know if they all did.

The priest signs the form to confirm this and specifies the frequency of church attendance

So a parent just has to pop into the church every Sunday and sign a register? Maybe for a year? and their children can attend a Catholic school. Would they be given priority over someone who only managed every other week for a year? That explains how so many people are able to fake it. What a corrupt system!

It's not a case of "popping in" - Mass isn't really poppable! Plus copies of baptismal certs, and a lengthy personal statement declaring that everything you're putting is true.

That's a lot of hoops to jump through if you're not actually a practicing Catholic, isn't it?

Batterypoweredmumra,

Just trying to get an idea of what happens. So you have to have a baptism within 6 months of birth to get a certificate? Write a personal statement, and then go to church every few weeks in the last year before application?

Would that get you into an over subscribed Catholic school?

There's a bit more to it. The child should be baptised within 6 months of birth, and traditionally Catholics baptise quickly (I was 10 days, my siblings similar) so 6 months is seen as a relatively long time but gives you chance to get yourself together a bit. One of our baptisms was at 7 months but he was premature and a bit poorly to begin with so the Priest was ok about it.

But you also have to be practising Catholics yourselves. At least one parent has to have been baptised, and fully attend Mass, and that generally means take Comminion, go to confession etc, and usually greet the Priest on the way out.

VA RC schools can set their own admissions and they manage that via the supplementary information form which you get signed by the Priest and then gets sent into school. At our school a practising Catholic from within the parish wouldn't have too much trouble getting in usually yet it's oversubscribed.

There are non Catholic kids there too, but generally they've got in on a mid year transfer, or a low birth year. That's all fine but things get complicated if the non Catholic family then wants to add a sibling, as a non Catholic sibling goes lower down the list than a practising Catholic even from outside the Parish. There have been a few cases lately of siblings split across different schools (which I think is awful) but the school are explicit that non Catholic siblings might not get in.

I can't think of anyone who has "faked" getting in, partly because it's a pain in the bum to begin with and partly because you're signing up to a very Catholic education which doesn't make much sense unless you've got the cultural background to go with it.

The best school near me where I grew up was Jewish. There were a few Gentiles that went, but I do wonder whether the great results the school got, would have translated to the kids who were shoe-ins as they'd always be different somehow.

Just to add, you can't get your child baptised as Catholic unless you or the other parent is themselves a baptised Catholic. And you can't easily convert either. The only converts I know are married to Catholics.

I went to two Catholic schools.

My mother was a single parent, and I wasn't Catholic.

And they were seriously shit schools.

So if priests want to discriminately allow kids in, or stop them from coming in, to shit schools, then by all means, go ahead.

a good way to keep out the undesirables?

It's exactly what it is, supermum. Faith schools shouldn't be allowed any special rules for admissions if they are taking public money.

"Just to add, you can't get your child baptised as Catholic unless you or the other parent is themselves a baptised Catholic. And you can't easily convert either. The only converts I know are married to Catholics."

Of course you can convert to Catholicism. The Catholic Church wants as many converts as possible. Adults have to do a special course if they want to take mass in an RC church. I think its called RCIA. The Catholic Church recognises baptism, but not Protestant confirmation.

That's also rubbish about baptisms, sorry.

Most Catholic families I know have their baptisms within 2-6 months, no hard and fast rules regarding timings. I guess in the old days when Catholic doctrine still "supported" the idea of limbo (which it no longer does) they did it early to avoid that.

Dp and I are unmarried. I'm CoE, he hasn't set foot in mass apart from weddings and funerals since dd did her FHC. No questions asked when we wanted to baptise her.

And as a pp says, conversion is very much sought by the church. More members, why wouldn't they want it? My cousin converted....oddly just as her oldest girl was starting to think about secondary school. Vair good Catholic one in their town. Obviously completely coincidental.

and a lengthy personal statement declaring that everything you're putting is true

That doesn't sound particularly code compliant but maybe I'm misinterpreting. If you post a screenshot if the oversubscription criteria it would help.

A lot of VA schools and academies aren't code-compliant but unless someone bothers to report them to the adjudicator they get away with it.

My cousin converted....oddly just as her oldest girl was starting to think about secondary school. Vair good Catholic one in their town. Obviously completely coincidental.

Good. The more people subvert the ridiculous situation, the better.

Ah, the inclusive welcoming umbrella of religion.

If I read the op correctly, does this essentially mean the admission is at the discretion of one person? The priest says you are catholic enough and you're in? Regardless of your view on stated funded religious education, that level of control and power is appalling.

Please tell me I have misunderstood.

Yeah that's rubbish about baptisms. My first wasn't baptised for 10 months cos I was essentially a lazy bitch. It's entirely open and up to the parents. There's zero closing date.

Lot of misinformation on this thread......

I can't believe faith schools still exist in this day and age. Fucking ridiculous segregating children based on their parent's religion. How about dividing children into schools based on which political party their parents happen to prefer? It is no dafter.

Misson you have understood perfectly.

And unlike the current system of putting clear precise criteria in the Admissions policies, there will be no visible means of appeal if the priest won't sign.

Nathan they do exist and are very popular. Which is why their admissions policies need to be fair and legal.

Creationism is being taught at faith schools, or it was in 2015, when this article was published.

Yes, Creationism is taught in schools. It certainly was when I was in school, and that was not that long ago.