Priests to control school admissions: Discuss

[TheKingIsInTheAltogether]

So the Catholic Education Service has devised a new admissions process for its schools putting the decision on whether a family is considered "practicing" or not in the hands of its priests. The priests will grant a Certificate of Catholic Practice to families who they deem to be following Canon Law, but are able to apply some professional discretion.

Families will need one of these certificates if they want a place at an oversubscribed catholic school.

However the Schools Adjudicator has thrown a spanner in the works by declaring the new process in breach of the Admissions Code, and that decision is going to be challenged in the courts ...
www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/20/catholic-church-court-priests-faith-school-places

It seems to me that the Catholic Church is actively promoting its schools as academically desirable and using that as a carrot to coerce all Catholics into following Canon Law to the letter. In areas where schools are very oversubscribed, families will inevitably need to compete for these certificates and the bar for obtaining them can be raised at the priest's discretion. Families won't dare miss Mass in case their faith is considered questionable.

I can't believe anyone would think that an acceptable admissions system!

Neither single mothers or remarried people are barred from Communion.

Not in Italy at least. Which should kind of know the rules....(the current Pope spoke about this earlier this year- each case taken on merit as far as remarried people are concerned, he stated there is no impediment that bars them from Communion, or from being godparents etc)

So many people undergo a St Paul like conversion at school application time, I imagine the Catholic church has had its bellyfull.

I suppose a lot depends on your definition of a non catholic. I don't think that getting baptised for a party and then never darkening a church again should count. There needs to be rules that doesn't make the life of refugees who struggle to prove baptism before a year hard.

The complaint from a parent against the admission policy (which was upheld) was not that you had to prove you were a practising Catholic, but that it was impossible to tell from the policy what the criteria were for giving the certificate.
The Admissions Code states “Admission authorities must ensure that parents can easily understand how any faith-based criteria will be reasonably satisfied.” The submission from the Catholic Church says that “It is for a priest to make the judgement whether a child comes from a practising Catholic family." - which means that parents applying for the same school who go to different churches may have to fulfill different criteria to get the certificates.

It discriminates against other Catholics who don't follow the rules so well
Hahaha! Seriously; this is a problem for you?

Elspeth. Mine too!

Not sure how thia is news- it's happened in my authority for years, because schools are so oversubscribed. Now there are more siblings than places in lots of schools, so even faith-following siblings aren't getting places.

One of our local schools insists on baptismal certificate within 3 months of birth
Centralised system/ canon law/ priest's discretion is much more sensible.

Philodox it hasn't happened in your area for years. The CCP is new for 2017.
It's different to the previous system because it takes the practice criteria out of the admissions policies and puts them in the hands of the priests.

The CCP does not appear to have been introduced across all Catholic schools. The Catholic Education Service may want that but, contrary to the report in the Guardian, it does not determine the admission arrangements for all Catholic schools. The governors for each school have that responsibility.

The Admissions Code is clear that schools must publish their admission arrangements in full and that they must be objective, which therefore implies that any test of faith must be objective. The CES argued that the CCP does not form part of the admission arrangements and therefore they do not need to publish the criteria used by priests in deciding whether or not to give one. The Adjudicator disagreed. I may be wrong but I would expect the courts to side with the Adjudicator on this point.

A further issue is that getting a CCP may involve a meeting with the priest. State funded schools are prohibited by law from using an interview with pupils or parents as part of their admissions process. The CES argue that this meeting is not an interview. The Adjudicator took the view that it is an interview. I'm less confident about this one but I would, on balance, expect the courts to side with the Adjudicator.

I think this new ruling by the Church is just to ensure as much consistency and fairness as possible. I don't see what the problem is.

The problem is that they aren't telling parents what you have to do in order to qualify for a CCP. That appears to be contrary to the Admissions Code. Parents should be able to figure out how likely it is they will get a place at any school before applying. The fact that the CES wants to avoid publishing the criteria for a CCP and wants to include a meeting between the parents and the priest as part of the process suggests that the process will not necessarily be fair in that some priests will use it to the advantage of their favoured families.

Regarding funding, the state in theory covers all the running costs, although in practice the church tops up the funding for at least some schools. The church must find at least 10% of any capital costs for a VA school (the form taken by most Catholic schools). The church owns the land and buildings used by almost all Catholic schools.

Faith schools have always asked for proof, at least the ones i know do. The C of E schools in our town ask for proof of the family attending their church every week, you practically have to be best friends with the Vicar from what I've been told!

My boys went to Catholic school. we had to produce the baptism certificate and write a supporting letter explaining why we felt a Catholic education was right for them.

"So for those of you who think this is a good system, if Muslim schools decide to adopt something similar based on Sharia Law would that be acceptable too?"

They already do, don't they?

Sadly not a new thing. My DD was baptised RC yet couldn't get her foot in the door of our nearest Primary (RC).
Then again after the upper section of their same school threatened to "f**k me up" one day whilst with my 7yo DS (I'd stopped a fight earlier that week). I think the universe has it's own way of explaining whilst DCs dont get into certain schools as that was just the start of the problems not going into any more detail as too identifying.

I know of someone who insisted their DC got moved to the RC school, then complained when they took part in masses etc . It's very competitive around here as the RC is well sought after less shit than the other school options , do the catholic church not get a bit suspicious about some parents pitching up near to admittance times though? I know we had to attend several lessons before DD was christened so maybe the certificate is a good thing.

There is a difference btn a school insisting on sharia law or extremely conservative Jewish law which is not compatible with UK law, and a school asking for children to be part of a practicing faith family.

Catholic and CofE schools are prioritising families who want to go because of the faith ethos over families who want to go for their academic reputation.

As a practicing christian who sent DCs to faith schools that seems reasonable to me.

I can't believe anyone would think that an acceptable admissions system!

Why is it any less acceptable than the current one of discriminating on the basis of religion?

In fact I get a little irritated with the families who turn up at certain times of year, and are never seen again.

Maybe they don't want to publish they criteria to avoid people box ticking; op said herself it used to be "attending Mass once a month for two years". That has never been the expectations of a practising Catholic...
Why should someone doing the bare minimum (and that is the bare minimum) get a place ahead of people who don't tick boxes for the sole purpose of getting their child into a good school?
Not a Catholic school, note; or they'd have no objection to that bare minimum being removed - but a "good" school.
Oh and prh, you have to meet the priest in person to sign the form, obviously, but there's no question of an interview.
If he has to "interview" the parent, it suggests they're either new to the parish or new to the Catholic Church...

They have to take a number of non practicing Catholics by law anyway don't they?

I used to go to church many moons ago, everyone wanted their DC to go to the CofE school, all the CofE school required was that you sat an exam and had a supporting letter from your Minister or other, that you had been attending a place of worship for at least two years.

theking would anyone other than Moslems want to attend a Moslem school in all honesty?

Only when under subscribed, Pixies. But here's a strange thing; you very rarely see non Catholics trying to storm the gates of a failing, undersubscribed Catholic school. Funny, that...

My priest had to sign something for me to go to my catholic secondary in the 1980s (not over subscribed).
In the 5 years I was there only a couple of non Catholics were allowed to attend.

But here's a strange thing; you very rarely see non Catholics trying to storm the gates of a failing, undersubscribed Catholic school. Funny, that...

Here's a strange thing, you rarely see Catholics trying to storm the gates of a failing undersubscribed Catholic school. FUnny that.

No, Soup, I think you've missed the point somewhat.

Parents in Wanting Best School For Their Child Shock!

No, I really haven't missed any point whatsoever.

I think it would be Interesting if Catholics had to apply to more than one catholic school. In my area there are outstandingly good and outstandingly crap catholic schools. If the faith family had to put the crap catholic school as their second choice then the fakers probably not take the risk.