Unicef: out of all the industrialised nations Britain comes bottom.

[Callisto]

Anyone suprised? The full report is here: unicef report

Totally agree with Bugsy. As a society we have very little respect for anything other than money.

It brings to mind an incident in the doctor's surgery a couple of years ago when a rough-looking woman with a very unkempt and timid little girl was loudly sounding off to her friend about anything they discussed. When she was called to her doctor, she grabbed the child and said ' right, let's go and sort this fucking idiot out'. (She was referring to the doctor, BTW). What an example.

I think this report was unfair in several respects. The points about child poverty were fair enough, but ranking nations on whther or not children say their peers are "kind and helpful" - how on earth can that be a fair test? Also jusging "relationships" by whether or not meals are taken together - that's a general culture thing, surely? as is the attractiveness or otherwise of being drunk to teenagers.

GOH, so it was you giving me evil looks that day.

grumpyoldhorsewoman: actually that's not true. As a society, the UK has respect for money, and any report which says the UK is worse than other countries. You don't hear much about things like the accident rates in the UK much do you?

This might sound offbeat, but is our 'whingeing pom' tendency at the heart of this? Many of the indicators are actually based on perceptions about how good things are.

I wonder this because in many ways we are very similar to the Netherland which came top! Maybe they just have a more positive attitude?

Ask a Brit "Are you happy?" and you rarely get the answer "yes". We are a nation of taxi drivers!!!

I think meals being taken together is important though SP. Meals taken together on a regular basis is a good indicator of communication within a family. It is one of those things that is proven to enhance family life.

yes, cloudhopper - that's kind of what I was trying to say. the only thing that really shames me as a brit in that report is the bit about child poverty.

Senora, I said the nation has little respect for anything apart from money - meaning we have the greatest respect for cash and little else.

but Cloudhopper we never used to considered a nation of whingers.

the reason our accident rates are low presumably is because it is difficult to get injured on a playstation.

Children are treated to a kind of apartheid in this country. If I want to go out for a meal in this country after about 5 in the eveing there are few options. There is a Prezzo in town that opened in November - the kids are welcome with open arms (not literaly) and they love it. Otherwise its some hideous plastic kiddy-barn like Charlie Chalks where the food is appalling and over-priced and the only concession to kids is that they don't have to sit and talk to their families. . Or a country pub but only in the summer when we can sit outside.

People tut at noisy kids so in many places kids are not welcome. But they can only learnt to behave themselves in a pleasant way when they are used to doing so. IME kids rise to the occasion when required and really appreciate being treated as human being not some irritating sub-species who can't be trusted not to make a noise/scene/mess. Even parents can be prone to this attitude. I like my kids, I want to socialise with them. I don't want to be side-lined off to some awful place because I have my children with me.

if we can't even enjoy spending time with our own kids we have real problems.

Also the fear so many parents have of the outside world is unhealthy - allowing your child to set foot outside his/her own front door does not automatically make him prey to the nearest paedophile/dangerous driver/bully. The world is generally a pretty wonderful and safe place but that isn't the way it's seen by many people. This kind of insularity makes for weak communities, mistrustful individuals and unhealthy unhappy children. Children need to be part of a wider world, not confined to a world of walls, nuclear families and play station. Mud, grazed knees, neighbours and independence have to play a part. IMO.

goh - I think you misread my comment. I know what you meant.

car accident rates are very low in the uk, as are industrial accident rates.

OrmIrian - completely agree.

On your last point, community parenting seems to be extinct in this country which may be why we hate letting our children out of our sight.

I agree SP - see my earlier posts. If you read the whole report it's not as depressing as the media are making out.

I agree also that the UK are quite likely to come low in a test where they are asked about their own perceptions. Just because a lower percentage of British children answered 'yes' to the question 'Are your peers kind and helpful?' doesn't mean that a lesser percentage are kind and helpful. There obviously wasn't a 'sometimes' box to tick.

I agree OrmIron. Often children are ghettoised in their own homes too. They are supposed to go & play up in their rooms & not disturb the adults. In lots of mainland European countries, this simply doesn't happen. Children are a happy & welcome part of the family.
If we had better disciplined children who had more respect for their parents then they would be more welcome everywhere.

Community parenting... I think that is something that is becoming exting everywhere. Now you can't ask a child to stop trashing your house without fearing mum being deeply offended by your actions.

Yesterday I was picking up DS from his school when a lovely little girl asked me if I could help her to strap her shoes. It took quite a while because the straps were practically new and she was wearing the shoes on the wrong feet... and all the time I was worried about her mum/teacher appearing and telling me off for helping her with her shoes. All the time I felt I was doing something that I shouldn't, and considering the norms, probably I was

exting >>> extinct

god thats bad but unsuprising

go to b&q and you can buy kids play equipment that used to be for parks, and stick it in your enormous garden

shop online

never need to leave the house really...

"If we had better disciplined children who had more respect for their parents then they would be more welcome everywhere. "

Bugsy How can Children learn to behave in public if they aren't welcome there in the first place. I believe that some children are badly behaved in a restraunt for instance because its not an enviroment they are used to.

Most children behave worst at home than anywhere else. I don't expect two year olds to behave really well in a restaurant, because they are too little to understand.
However, I think 5 upwards should be capable of sitting at the table for a while, making a bit of conversation & not being a complete PITA.
When they are really little you can take them to cafes, out to friends houses & even at home have an expectation that they listen to what you say.

Yeah, you can't expect a child to behave perfectly in a restaurant being 2 yrs old, but the sooner she/he starts going the sooner the kid will become familiairised with the experience and learn to behave in a more apropiate way.

I agree Chandra & there are plenty of places that it is fine to take toddlers to so that they can get used to going out & eating away from home.

Although, of course, this learning experiences could be less traumatic for the parents, if the rest of the people was slightly more patient about reasonably behaved children.

I am so glad this issue has finally moved into the centre of the public arena. Personally and professionally I am under no illusions that we as a society are failing our children and although I don't have the answers I do believe this issue needs addressing.

And anyone who gets annoyed at a 2yr old acting like a 2yr old in a cafe deserves to be shut up in a room with 20 of them for half an hour!!! Unless a child has some real behavioural probs what can they do that is so bad? We've all been kids or had kids so why can't we tolerate a little noise? And if it becomes too bad they should be asked to leave - just as a badly-behaved or drunk adult should be.

I am constantly amazed and proud of my 7 and 10 yr olds when we take them out somewhere - they are polite, helpful, make conversation and eat well. My 3yr old is something else mind you...I live in hope...