Unicef: out of all the industrialised nations Britain comes bottom.

[Callisto]

Anyone suprised? The full report is here: unicef report

But many of the areas measured were things where money would make no difference.

Why should being a rich country make us eat together more often?

The only 2 sections out of the 6, where money makes a difference are Material well-being and Educational well-being. We scored highly on education on one part. What let down our score is that there's such a high percentage of 15-19 year olds not in education or training.

What's very interesting to me is that although the UK's children are living in poorer households, the percentage of children reporting low family affluence was low and we ranked 8 from top.

The thing is that in less industrialised societies, family tends to play quite a big role in the survival of the family, with the old helping with the child care and education of the children, while other adults support the family economy. However, these support networks are very fragile in highly indutrial societies where the family links are broken due to work related moves.

agree with expat...

I found the South and Colorado more child-friendly in some ways, Grumpy, mostly b/c there's a lot of religion there (outside Boulder) and they tend to see children in a different light b/c of their faith.

But tbh I think the US and UK are running a close race in this.

they didn't check the bf rates - so important for child health.

in fact the usa is number 20

in fact the usa is number 20

What I really don't understand is all the thing about British mums breastfeeding less than in other countries, I have never seen such a passionate country as Britain with regards to BF.

I definitely think it is unacceptable to impart so many graphic details. You would not take your 12 year-old to see a diturbingly violent film, so how can it be right to have such levels of detail included in a news bulletin for all to hear? This was at 1pm yesterday, and was just too much. I cannot stop thinking about it, and it was one of the last images in my head last night when I went to sleep. We, as a society, do not afford children enough consideration and seem to think nothing of exposing them to such unspeakable horrors. What happened to the age of innocence?

It's the work, work, work society, though, Chandra, methinks. I know that is why I had to stop bf when I did. I had to go back to work. And although it's supposed to be the rule that you have a place to express, I'm really not in a position to rock the boat at work and make things harder for myself when I need the money to live.

Funny, the concept of happiness.

I have to say I have met so many more people who considered themselves happy who lived in what we would consider much less fortunate circumstances.

I agree that the UK can be a bit unfriendly twords children. In the US there are very few places that you would feel uncomftorablwe bringing your children. 5star restraunt on Sat. night? No problem she is treated like an honored guest. Here you couldn't take her anywhere but Mcdonalds or Pizza Hut on Saturday.

I also think there is a big problem, its a problem in lots of countries, that the work life balance is off. You can't have dinner together every night as a family if Daddy gets home so late everynight and you can't play with him on the weekends because he has extra work he has to do at home. It must be worse in familys where both Mommy and Daddy work. House prices and the price of decent healthy food means that many households have to have two incomes. Its not right.

I think we have ghettos of poverty where children live in shocking conditions and mostof us just live along side them blissfully unaware.

In the school that I teach in the kids are ghettoised ( not sure if thatis a word) and rarely mix with other kids. They have no idea whatit is like to be at a "normal" schoool for example that is more concerned with education than surrogate parenting and social work. A lack of money does seem to be associated with so much that leads to a deprived childhood.

The poverty in our school was made all to clear in a very simple way when we had our school photos done the children who had clean uniforms in good repair really stood out and in my yeargroup I woudl say there was less than a handful. Mosthad grey or yellow shirts with buttons missing, ripped pocket, ripped faded blazers, shoes with holes in, ripped trousers, or trousers pinned together, dirty unbrushed hair, hair crawling with nits, dirtyfaces and filty nails and on a day when they were making an effort for the photo - and I know theywere because they were all trying to doll themselves up in form time. I am not saying a dirty uniform is the end of the world but it was a very visual indicator of the kind of homes our kids come from that brought me to tears.

Mos of our kids ahve had awful lives, a shocking number are on the at risk register, many kids ahve parents who have never worked or have parents that ahve to work really long hours for shit pay meaning that the child has to run house. Many of our kids are carers for their parents as their parents are battling illness or some form of addiction. Many are carers to the endless number of kids in their family, I teacha girl who comes from a family of nine! Big families are common in our school.

When the kids did an english assignment about cooking tea at night most had a pot noodle, cup a soup or something like beans on toast that they made themselves or ateon their own. A number of our kids don't eat at home as they get free school meals and that shoudl be enough. Mnay of our kids are in temproary accomodationwhich in this town is awful, I once lived in a hostel that houses some of our families that had concrete floors in the rooms that were swilled out everyday.

This is not a childhood we should be proud to provide our kids.

But expat... it is the privilege of industrialised countries to have "long" maternity leaves. I know that in the US are considerable shorter than in the UK, but if you look at poor countries it could be 6 weeks long or even unexistent, many mothers are back at work hours after giving birth because otherwise they wouldn't be able to have food to eat.

do you know what bf rates are like in such countries, chandra?

that'd be an interesting comparison.

This report is v. sad, but unfortunately not surprising. The family is very undervalued in this country, which seeps into everyday lives. I think that things like eating together and having trust for friends and parents are v. important. But they often get brushed aside because we are all so stressed by the so called 'dog eat dog' society and how much harder can it be if you live in poverty? The government may be trying to tackle aspects of it, like teenage pregnancy, smoking, drinking etc. but they don't seem to look at the whole picture.

It very much depends on the level of poverty. I would say that for a group of people who has the same wealth as a similar group here they are very much the same. However, I have not yet seen such strong feeling about BF as I have seen here.

I agreee with your last paragraph there PP. Britian is 4th richest county, and now most expensive to live in, but we are only paid average wages.

The only way we can afford a house big enough for us, is to both work. Would like to buy all organic food, but simly cannot afford it. If rip-off Britain was addressed a bit, perhaps one of us could afford to stay at home

I very much wonder if we are overvaluing the aspect of salaries. American salaries tend to be higher and yet the cost of living is cheaper, but still... the US was placed by the UK in the tables.

Spanish salaries are difinitively lower than UK's ones but they ended up in the 6th place. hmmm

Undervalued is the key word here. Family, and children for that matter, are undervalued. I read an article in the Times Style supplement (of all places) this Sunday which was a comeback to another journalist who had complained the week before about so-called 'yummy mummies'. However, upon reading the article all the way through, it became more apparent that he had more of an issue with parents per se and mothers of any description in particular. It seemed that he had implied that we had no right to do anything but live in a tracksuit and raise our offspring at home, never venturing forth into society where we may offend his eyes with our pushchairs and mewling children. As the retaliating journalist (a savvy mother-of-four) so eloquently put it 'so he can continue to live his grown-up life surronded by clean white carpets and fragranced with narcissi'. We are expected to keep our children out of sight of the recreational public at all times so they may not be bothered by them. Is that why, do you think, that at age 16, when you can keep them in no longer, they congregate to binge-drink their way through every weekend with no apparent social skills, fighting and shagging in the back alleys (and sometimes on the high street). Cafe society my arse.

Although I think affordability and poverty are one aspect of a decent life, I think we need to look beyond that for answers to the problems raised in this report.

How much of an impact does the average commute of 45 minutes in the morning and evening have on family life?

How much have we atomised our communities to give less support to each other at a local level?

How much of an impact has it had that we have polarised our education system between haves and have-nots?

Why has housing policy created council estates which group all the struggling individuals and families together and to create a 'pit of despair'?

How have we created a welfare state where a third of households rely for more than half their income on the state?

So many questions.

Agree on the 'Pit of Despair', Cloudhopper. Ghettoes.

I was wondering about "respect". Seems to me we respect very little in this country. We don't respect politicians, professionals, SAHMs, WOHMs, big business, religion etc. The only thing that commandeers respect any more is the power of the £1.
How can we possibly hope to have any kind of "society" and shared responsibility when no one respects anyone else?

interesting.....I live in the Netherlands which has come top despite the fact that

1. we have he worst maternity leave in Europe - only 12 weeks after the birth
2. We pay 52% tax so the cost of living is high, base rate is 35% and we have the 19% vat too
3. House prices are also very high

But

1. Most women work part time
2. Formal education does not begin until 6 (first 2 years at school are spent playing)
3. The country spends alot of money on provision of recreational activities (good public swimming pools, focus on sports provision)
4. The country has one of the most advanced post natal health care programmes in the western world so infant mortaility is very low and the vaccination rates are high. It is complusory to vaccinate - no vaccinations - no school
5. School is generally genuinely enjoyed by most children - i find that interesting given that they are much less pushed than in the UK and are allowed to "just be children"..

not pretending to have all the answers but these are the things that strike me

i think it al comes down to attitude and education, but not sure how much is about respect. I would say that it's also a pretty grabby culture over here.......I think people are alot less polite than in the UK

Good point about social housing.

When my parents, aunts and uncles got council houses more than 30 years ago, there were celebrations galore - it was a real break, a good, reliable landlord who wouldn't rip you off, who would occasionally do repairs, and who wouldn't throw you out at the drop of a hat, with decent houses with no mould in the bedroom. It was a helping hand and a sign that their lives were looking up.

Now, if you get a council house, it's generally seen as a sign that your life has gone disastrously wrong somewhere.

Times have really changed.

A woman on newsnight was saying thata big factor was a lack of stability in all areas of life and I see that in the kids i teach

1. Being passed from parent to parent

2.Parents flitting from one partner to another.

1. Famileis constantly moving between poor temporary housing.
2. Social workers, support workers moving on.
3. Teachers changing term after term as they leave from stress or seek an easier option.
4. Chaging financial status - a big issue in a seasonal town - "flush" for a few months of the year and broke after that.
5. A lack of stabilty in rules, one set of rules at home, another with another parent or carer, another set at school and a whole different code of behaviour with peers.