Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Ched Evans Cleared - I Still Believe Her

560 replies

ChampagneCommunist · 14/10/2016 14:45

Just seen this in the BBC website. His poor, poor victim

OP posts:
SooWrites · 20/10/2016 15:14

Imagine waking up every morning knowing that the last person who touched you intimately was your rapist. That the last time you had sex was rape. Imagine knowing that you had no control over your body, that your choice to consent was ripped away from you.

When you consider that it's pretty fucking easy to see why someone would choose to have consensual sex soon after rape.

Of course not everyone does and that is their right and not everyone who does does so for the above reasons and that is also their right.

What we don't have a right to do is judge those choices or reasons.

venusinscorpio · 20/10/2016 15:45

You can think what you like. It's not strange, and you are ignorant.

HillaryFTW · 20/10/2016 16:06

"the authorities took the view that her evidence and that of others indicated that she was too drunk to consent. If that view is correct it follows that she was raped by McDonald and Evans."

IMO, she was.

The first jury, however, may have found CM's belief that he had consent reasonable and this is a defence to a rape charge (which of course doesn't mean the victim wasn't penetrated without consent i.e. raped).

Just as the woman who was penetrated without consent by a man in the 'wrong room' was raped, even though he was not convicted owing, presumably, to the possibility that his wrong room story was reasonable.

HillaryFTW · 20/10/2016 16:07

I mean, they may have considered her too drunk to consent BUT that CM had reasonable belief in her consent.

birdsdestiny · 20/10/2016 16:16

Everyone woman on this thread who has been comfortable discussing their own sex life has said that they are not unusual similarities. This has just convinced me further that those similarities should never have been raised. People draw meaning from them based on their own sex life. Not ideal is it.

merrymouse · 20/10/2016 16:17

I would imagine that if you took an average sample of 20 year olds, the description of sex as described in the judgement would be very, very standard.

However, in reality, how would anyone know?

venusinscorpio · 20/10/2016 16:30

As I said I can only see three not uncommon things claimed by CE which the appeal judges could think were in any way similar to x's earlier and subsequent sexual behaviour as reported by other men who were not CE, conveniently after a huge bribe had been offered for "new information". Hardly massively compelling in a cumulative sense. Why was that enough to overturn a previous jury verdict?

weveallkissedafrogor2 · 20/10/2016 19:13

That's right but neither is not remembering what you have done. But saying 'yes' when asked if someone can 'join in' tells me you were coherent enough to partake. If she was unconscious it's a different matter. She wasn't. She was telling him to ' fuck her harder'???? Coherent and enjoying herself in my 'opinion'

WomanWithAltitude · 20/10/2016 19:26

Yes, because after all rapists are well known for telling the truth abut what they did....

weveallkissedafrogor2 · 20/10/2016 19:43

As are all 19yr old girls!!!

LineyReborn · 20/10/2016 19:47

to partake

You disgust me. I hope my children never meet you in real life. You have no place in a civilised society and on a parenting website.

prh47bridge · 20/10/2016 19:47

I mean, they may have considered her too drunk to consent BUT that CM had reasonable belief in her consent

Equally we don't know what the second jury has decided. They may think she was not too drunk to consent and did consent to what happened. They may equally think that she was too drunk to consent but Evans reasonably believed she consented.

Hardly massively compelling in a cumulative sense. Why was that enough to overturn a previous jury verdict

I doubt that anything will convince you. I think this is fundamentally about the presumption of innocence.

The Court of Appeal allowed this evidence with "a considerable degree of hesitation". They say that the evidence "is arguably sufficiently similar" to come within 41(3)(c)(i) and "may" also come within 41(3)(a) (i.e. reasonable belief, where there is no test of similarity). That falls well short of saying it is definitely within these provisions. This suggests to me that they allowed it as, even though he was convicted at the first trial, Evans is entitled to a presumption of innocence. He is also entitled to a fair trial, both under UK common law and under the ECHR Article 6. This means that, if there is doubt about the admissibility of evidence, the courts will tend to make the decision that favours the defence.

I suspect you think it is beyond doubt that this evidence should not have been allowed. The CCRC and the Court of Appeal clearly think there is an arguable case that it should be allowed. Since the Court of Appeal spent two days listening to the evidence and the arguments before arriving at its decision I am of the view that they are better placed than anyone here to arrive at the correct decision. This was the collective decision of 3 very experienced judges. They are, however, only human so it is always possible they have got it wrong.

WomanWithAltitude · 20/10/2016 19:47

What did he have to gain by lying? Lots. Not going to prison for a start.

What did she have to gain by lying? Nothing.

You are a foul individual.

venusinscorpio · 20/10/2016 20:03

Well that nicely and pompously put me back in my box, prh, didn't it?

You haven't answered my question. Why would either you or the court of appeal think there were more points of similarity than there were? You gave two duplicated/false points. X was not the instigator, you have tried to claim all manner of bizarre reasoning to explain this including that her sex with CM was the same sex act as whatever happened with CE.

Don't you think I should find that worrying? As you have basically said "calm down ladies and let clever lawyers worry about these things", I think that makes me more concerned, not less. You, like all the lawyers commenting on this case, can't explain why this evidence is so singular. Singular enough to overturn a jury verdict which had already had an appeal rejected. So I am quite correct in saying you are not best placed to decide what women should be concerned about.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 20/10/2016 20:06

If we're listening to clever lawyers I think Helena Kennedy was bang on in suggesting that the C of A view of the sexual history evidence was a product of lack of understand of modern sexual mores. Or to put it more colloquially, their learned lord and lady ships have lead very sheltered lives!

venusinscorpio · 20/10/2016 20:13

Quite, Karlos.

weveallkissedafrogor2 · 20/10/2016 20:16

ok so rephrase (yet again!!!!) -coherent enough to consent to intercourse!!!
And I hope your sons never have sex with a 19yr old girl who's had a drink and regrets her actions in the morning!!!

weveallkissedafrogor2 · 20/10/2016 20:22

WWA she had sex with 2 men at the same time..... maybe she wanted to save face infringement of her family????
Not foul- realistic!
So there's never been a case of a woman lying about being raped in order to save face???? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news people. 99% of people I've spoken to are o the same opinion - he's an arse yes but he's NOT GUILTY!

weveallkissedafrogor2 · 20/10/2016 20:23

*in front of her family

WomanWithAltitude · 20/10/2016 20:24

How would her family ever find out? If she had just gone home and said nothing they would never have known!

So no, she definitely had nothing to gain by lying. Nothing whatsoever.

weveallkissedafrogor2 · 20/10/2016 20:28

Didn't she report her handbag stolen.... the story of waking up In a hotel room that she went to with a stranger would possibly not go down too well with daddy!!!

Birdandsparrow · 20/10/2016 20:29

But frog, she never said she had been raped. She wasn't covering anything up by calling it rape because she didn't report a rape. She reported waking up in a strange room and said she didn't know what happened. The police spoke to CE and decided he had had sex without her consent.

Birdandsparrow · 20/10/2016 20:31

But she didn't say she had been raped, she said she couldn't remember.

weveallkissedafrogor2 · 20/10/2016 20:34

Then if she didn't say rape then why is everyone calling him a rapist? And why am I disgusting person with no place in society? Think it's a bit harsh that just because I'm saying what a lot of people are thinking then I get called names by people who can't accept that everyone has and is entitled to a different opinion!

Birdandsparrow · 20/10/2016 20:37

Seriously, you need to ask? Think about what you just said for a minute. If someone rapes an elderly lady with dementia and she can't remember later does that mean we shouldn't call him a rapist?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread