Burkini banned in France

[LifeIsGoodish]

Instead of teaching people to behave with respect to each other.

Burkini banned in France

'Inkanta if you think women making a choice to wear a particular type of swimwear is discrimination then that is delusional and insulting to those who truly face discrimination.'

Well I believe it is unequal and a sexist practice stemming from years and years of conditioning by men. Why do men not wear Burka's and Burkinis?

why do men not in general choose to wear skirts or dresses? because they don't should we ban women from doing so?

"Needabreak" By the way, I think you need to allow us to have this discussion and try not to attack posters' with words like 'delusion', 'insulting' and 'simple minded' so soon.

Let people express their views.

my Jewish DP and his friends get pretty cross about it.

About the disapproval/ restrictions?

Women can not "choose" to remain covered anymore than a beaten wife can "choose" to stay with Their partner. It's not a choice, it's just a state of being. They might think they're happy with it but that's just because they're brainwashed

This is way too simplistic. Yes, some women may be forced to cover up. Yes, some women may be influenced by cultural norms to cover up. But some do choose to cover up of their own free will.

I used to live overseas in a non-Muslim country. I had a Muslim friend from a different country who wore Western dress when I first knew her. She subsequently made a decision to start wearing the hijab. Her husband was horrified and did his best to persuade her out of it, as he thought it would make it difficult for them to integrate properly in the country where they were living. She was very clear that she was going to stick with it, because that's what she wanted to do.

Obviously the burqa and the hijab are different, but we can't make assumptions about any of them. I can totally see why some women - regardless of religion actually- might prefer to wear a burkini at the beach. Banning them and telling women to wear fewer clothes cannot be a good thing in my view.

No one chooses to stay covered up. Not one woman has never chosen to dress head to tow in a thick black covering. They are doing it because they are socially conditioned to be a sexist society. If they believe they have chosen it, then they are wrong.

No one chooses to stay covered up. Not one woman has never chosen to dress head to toe in a thick black covering. They are doing it because they are socially conditioned to by a sexist society. If they believe they have chosen it, then they are wrong.

Reposted as so many typos!

dontyoulovecalpol, that seems to be a very insulting way to look at people's free choice - other people can sand do have different world views than you do.

The issue of choice needs discussion and debate too. To what extenr are choices influenced by social and male conditioning. Consciously or unconsciously?

But that's the whole point of the thread? that choice has been removed.

Another misogynistic example of men telling women what they can and can't wear by banning a type of swimsuit.

Also don't remember any terrorist attacks being perpetrated by women in burkinis?

It's funny that in a country that has such strict secular laws they are facing a surge in terrorism - exclusion and 'othering' clearly is not working in France.

Calpol I'm sure that's very similar to what radical Muslims say about the way we dress here. They couldn't possibly have chosen to wear mini skirts, hot pants etc themselves. There culture pressures them to look like that in order to be accepted. They dress like that to get the attention of men blah blah. There is some truth to that (some of the things we wear here are not comfortable like heels or revealing clothing that puts a lot of pressure on women to be an ideal size, wax etc) just as there is some truth to the argument that some Muslim women are forced or conditioned by culture to dress a certain way and it is not to do with religion. However it is false to assume that no one has chosen to dress in Islamic clothing by their own choice and for their own reasons just as it is to assume that no woman wears makeup, heels or hot pants for herself.

Yes there is some irony that the ban looks like a removal of choice. At face value it does. Think there is more to this ban than that though.To me it is a criticism of something bigger - something that needs criticising and debate.

www.escapesurfschool.co.uk/group-bookings

This gear is really like a burkini. UV as well, I guess. bodysuit and rash vest. Is it the colour that is a problem, because these would work ok.

Chatter, nothing wrong with a state being secular. To be aspired to, I think. The world's many and disparate religious beliefs should be a personal, private matter. Not a public one.

"No one chooses to stay covered up. Not one woman has never chosen to dress head to toe in a thick black covering. They are doing it because they are socially conditioned to by a sexist society. If they believe they have chosen it, then they are wrong."

The choices you make are only valid choices if they are the ones I agree you should choose .

www.amazon.co.uk/Girls-Pink-Protection-Legionnaire-years/dp/B00DTTFJK0/ref=pd_sim_200_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=JRF6BTNECHH6ZWF4KC3A

Something similar on top and bob's your uncle.

Just wondering what these ladies would have to say

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01CG6NSHC/ref=twister_B01CG6NWM8

Would these be allowed? In adult version obviously. It is the same type thing.

Maybe for different intentions, but same type thing.

What irks me about this is:

1. Men telling women they should not cover up when they go in the sea.
2. Men telling women they should cover up when they go in the sea.
3. Women on the beach getting the blame for cultural tensions.

Burkini/wetsuit/bikini. Who gives a shit what women choose to wear on the beach? Many a time I've gone and wanted to remain covered up wearing a floaty dress, hat, sunglasses etc. Other times I've been happier to wear cossie/bikini. But that's my business. Although, it always gets commented on by someone. That's the trouble with being a woman - what we look like is open season for all (men and women alike) to comment on.

Not to labour the point, last pic post. The chappie in long swim tights and rash vest with swim cap. Will that be allowed?

paulinesquire.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/chilly-swimming.html

don'tyoulove in that case, none of us really 'choose' what we wear as we are all socially conditioned. Western culture can be restrictive too. I can't tell you how many times I've had people say 'you're not a girly girl' or comment on my choice not to wear lots of makeup, have my hair styled etc. Aren't we all culturally conditioned to conform? When you don't conform to a pre-conceived notion of female, you get commented upon. Even men get this to a certain extent.

surely the point is women should have a choice and freedom. Like the women in the article pinkhouse posted, she said 'we are humans, we have our freedom'. That means a woman should be able to express herself how she wants to. Burkinis are not the problem. Violence is the problem. People who like to hurt others is the problem.

Forcing women to wear a bikini/cossie is just as bad as forcing a woman to wear a burka imo. It's the 'forcing women' bit that is the problem.

I am in 2 minds about this. Generally the women wearing these burkinis are doing so for religious reasons and would be far more comfortable and less hot wearing normal swimwear. The only reason they are not comfortable wearing a swimsuit is because they are either not allowed to or have been so conditioned from their early years that they don't feel comfortable doing so which is wrong.

Where I live 4 and 5yo girls are forced to wear hijab to school by their parents (they are obviously too young to have a choice) and they make them wear them so young so they don't reject them as teens. A lot of them also wear a long black gown over their umiform which really restricts what they can do at playtime. I would say none of these young children I know are really making a "choice" to wear hijab/birkas/ whatever other type of covering when they are older.

I would support a ban on under 18's wearing any form of religious dress in Britain ( certainly in schools and public places). If adults want to then that is fine but I think the indoctrination of children has to stop. The more secular religions get the better chance of everyone getting along, and by that I mean all religions, not just Muslims because Christianity is no better, in lots of ways it's worse.