Burkini banned in France

[LifeIsGoodish]

Instead of teaching people to behave with respect to each other.

Burkini banned in France

Beachwear which ostentatiously displays religious affiliation, when France and places of worship are currently the target of terrorist attacks, is liable to create risks of disrupting public order (crowds, scuffles etc) which it is necessary to prevent

Sounds perfectly fine to me.

NeedanotherGlass.

Why do you think there have been so many terror attacks in various parts of France? Because the attackers HATE secularism and want things their own way. They don't want co-existence, they want to dominate the life and culture of France with their culture and mores.

They want to fragment France as the UK has been fragmented. Just caught a good docu on TV ...... in London we now have a multitude of different cultures choosing to live entirely separately, hardly ever meeting someone outside of their own culture. That is fragmentation.

As I said, the pink garment is probably not a burkini because it is clingy and shows off the form. A muslim man would not be happy to see his wife dressed in what looks like a tight diving suit.

Mohamed Salmene Lahouaiej-Bouhlel was a Tunisian terrorist living in France who carried out the 2016 Nice attack, in which he drove a truck into a crowd . One of many terror attacks in France.

These are tense times in France. There were scuffles on a beach in Corsica last week between a burkini wearing group of people and locals. I can understand that the French see the burkini as a provocative religious symbol. That's the way it is.

They banned it to reduce tensions as much as anything else.

Of course, Inkanta. Why would Cannes and Corsica want to upset its own residents by having holiday makers walk around in religious symbols, esp. as the atrocities are so fresh in everyone's minds. It's like saying 'fuck you'.

Cannes and Corsica do not want religious dress connected to a culture that does not respect France in the circumstances.

Would you not respect the traditions and demands if you went to a MENA country? In fact, you would have no choice; a woman would HAVE to cover her head, legs & arms at the very least.

And the irony is, by banning religious clothing and symbols, they have increased tensions.

Is it only Muslims who should stop covering their hair Miriam? Or would you apply it to Sikhs, Jews, Hindus, people undergoing chemo, kooky hat wearers and women wearing scarfs over their rollers?

It is religious clothing that is being banned

No one can ignore the issue is in regards to Muslims. France are in an extremely difficult situation at the moment. The increase in terrorists attacks has made people fearful has created divisions in society. The increase in the growth of a more extreme Islam one that clashes with values of the west isn't tolerated in France as it is at odds with their principles. Do they ignore this or fight for the country stands for

Religious freedom and progression clash the decision that many governments are going to have
to make is which has is more important for all their citizens

I truly believe a secular society is the better way forward not tolerance of extreme religious practices that separates people but that does take away some freedoms of religion

if I want to be with people to express my faith, I go to a church. I do not need special clothing to practice religion. Moreover, I am not determined that passerby should know what faith I belong to - that is 'othering' yourself and being deliberately provocative. Why would I want to do that? The ways things are, it is a political provocation.

that's fine for you, but not for others. it's not a provocation when a jew wears a yarmulka. he's doing it because he's a jew. in countries that respect freedom of expression, he has the right to do that wherever he pleases.

and, frankly, what if it's political provocation? now, we can't protest? we can speak our minds in public? what kind of "liberal" country does france want to be?

As to suggesting that SA offers religious freedoms, absolutely not. My husband has been there and says there is little freedom for anyone, religious or otherwise.

they offer precisely the same religious freedom you want in france. you are allowed to practice your religion in your home. if that's the road france wants to go down, so be it. glad I don't live there.

The reason why so many Muslim people like to relocate to the UK is precisely because we have lax dress laws here.

yes. people like freedom. well, some do.

To allow burkini and burka to be commonplace is a wrong road to go down. Why should I get disapproving looks by some MENA men in summer? Why should my 13 yr old daughter too? We are both soberly dressed, so what gives? It would be abnormal if I wore a coat in 70F degrees.

who thinks that is good? The trouble is that these laws precisely don't allow for freedom. the french are telling them they are wrong. it's going to produce a backlash, which is precisely what islamists want. they want muslims to feel victimised in the west.

Is this the sort of expression you want?

wearing your choice of dress on the beach and shooting journalists and running over people celebrating are rather different. no wonder french muslims feel marginalised. france could run a surgery on alienating minorities.

No one can ignore the issue is in regards to Muslims. France are in an extremely difficult situation at the moment.

except, the french have been banging this drum for 20 years. this is not new.

out of curiosity, should jews and sikhs suffer because the french have trouble integrating muslims?

I truly believe a secular society is the better way forward not tolerance of extreme religious practices that separates people but that does take away some freedoms of religion

yes, secularism is great. so is freedom of expression. why not be a country that wants both?

That is not what French society is based on

Religion is a private matter

Can you have a secular society when religion can dictate so much of how you live your life

Do the French have problems with the integration of Muslims or do some Muslims struggle with the principles of French society

The rise is more extreme Islam has been over the last 20 years this isn't to do with getto's in France that have large numbers of North Africans though some have been easy targets to manipulate

they offer precisely the same religious freedom you want in france. you are allowed to practice your religion in your home

You have clearly never spent a significant amount of time living in KSA. I know Catholics who were raided by the religious police because they were reported to have a crucifix in the wall. I know Christans who had gathered in a private home to celebrate Easter who were subjected to a citizens arrest and subsequently jailed.

To attempt to compare the respective religious tolerance of France and KSA completely negates any argument you make, I'm afraid.

Can you have a secular society when religion can dictate so much of how you live your life

that depends on what you mean by secular. What I mean by secular is that the state prefers no religion or lack of over another. Everyone, from atheists to muslims, are treated equally and have equal right to express their views in public.

so, sure you can. there are many countries where it happens. What I don't mean by secular is the government tells you what to think, where to think it, and in what clothes to think it in. why would I want the government to have that power?

To attempt to compare the respective religious tolerance of France and KSA completely negates any argument you make, I'm afraid.

I agree. I am exaggerating of course. So let's stick with France.

I just don't call that freedom of religion. The US is more free in that regard, as is the UK and Canada, and likely many other countries. France is simply less free in this regard, and that's a black eye on that nation in my opinion.

I absolutely have no love for islam. I don't want it to flourish in any country I live in. But I much more value the freedom to express oneself as one sees fit.

The French have dealt with the issues of FGM much better than we have

They are also trying to deal with the spread of extreme Islam that has no place in progressive society or are there no limitations at all to religious freedom

Here we have largely turned a blind eye to both

I am not sure who the many other secular countries and certainly wouldn't list America as being a country tolerant of Islam

The French have dealt with the issues of FGM much better than we have

as they should. as we should too.

not sure what that has to do with burkini though.

I am not sure who the many other secular countries and certainly wouldn't list America as being a country tolerant of Islam

why not? before you answer that question with loud mouth trump, do tell me which law targets islam. In fact, because of their first amendment and bill of rights, it would be very difficult to do so.

Muslims are a much smaller, and wealthier, minority in the US.

We should do but we don't as we have a different attitude towards religious tolerance we don't want to interfere

I am not sure of any laws that target any religion but America is certainly not a country of tolerance

What are France to do at this point in time ignore the principles the country is built on for a few to express their religious freedom

Didn't this all start because a man got arsy about a photograph.
I feel stupid for asking this, but are there 'rules' against Muslims in pictures?

I don't think so Special. It's just the prophet that mustn't be depicted.

What was the incident with the photographer?

I just read on either Telegraph or Guardian that a man asked someone not to take a photo of his wife, and it escalated into violence from there. Obviously not blaming the man! Was just wondering if it was a street photographer or something (article didn't say) as apposed to some weirdo taking pictures of women. I thought someone might know if it was the former, and if it was, was it because of a Muslim rules?

I just read on either Telegraph or Guardian that a man asked someone not to take a photo of his wife, and it escalated into violence from there, somehow culminating in the ban. Obviously not blaming the man! Was just wondering if it was a street photographer or something (article didn't say) as apposed to some weirdo taking pictures of women. I thought someone might know if it was the former, and if it was, was it because of a Muslim rules?

I just read on either Telegraph or Guardian that a man asked someone not to take a photo of his wife, and it escalated into violence from there, somehow culminating in the ban. Obviously not blaming the man! Was just wondering if it was a street photographer or something (article didn't say) as apposed to some weirdo taking pictures of women. I thought someone might know if it was the former, and if it was, was it because of a Muslim rules?

Sorry! Laptop froze and obviously decided to repeat myself.

Good Lord, excuse my grammar

Reading in the French press one version of the story is that there were a number of incidents of intimidation including as stone throwing which included targeting a tourist who was taking photos of the landscape.

Stone throwing by who?

We should do but we don't as we have a different attitude towards religious tolerance we don't want to interfere

so, the answer to FGM is banning clothing? we should absolutely do everything to prevent FGM, but again that has nothing to do with clothing.

I am not sure of any laws that target any religion but America is certainly not a country of tolerance

I can't think of a european country that does a better job integrating minorities. but if you don't like america, look to canada, which also protects religious freedoms.

What are France to do at this point in time ignore the principles the country is built on for a few to express their religious freedom

I don't think France should ignore the principles the country was based on. They should embrace, celebrate and expand on them. Principles like freedom and equality. Like it says on the tin.

You don't think any European countries do better at intergration minorities seriously ? Do you live in America ? Even the most ethnically diverse cities are hugely segregated

The discussion moved on to religious freedom. I disagree with complete religious freedom as females are as a matter of course discriminated against what someone believes in is personal the French believe it's a private matter. How far to you allow religious freedom to be practised we don't thankfully allow religious freedom it's conflicts with out laws and some human rights laws

More so than ever France is dealing with a very difficult situation the banning of the burkini on a few beaches is the least of their worries but has turned into a a debate about oppression. There is a choice in France there isn't in many countries.

The French authorities are having to deal with the fear people feel about terrorism, the attacks on the very principles the country is built on, the rise of the far right, the large Muslim population many feeling discriminated against and the spread of extreme Islam in their country.

France are not in a position and judging by news reports that I have read to appease a small minority when many in the country feel their very way of life is under attack. It's all very well allowing everyone to express openly the religion they support but when that also to many feels it's a symbol to the very source that is attacking the country can you blame them for not being as tolerant