Burkini banned in France

[LifeIsGoodish]

Instead of teaching people to behave with respect to each other.

Burkini banned in France

Witnessed

I personally think that the burkini ban is not so much a criticism of women wearing them but of the Muslim men that influence (or dictate) this choice. Rightly or wrongly this practice is being criticised very directly and openly and there's no pussy footing about it.

To me that's progress for the rights of women - not a backwards step.

these women are not "hosted" by France, they are generally born and bred French citizens

If that is so, then they have studiously and deliberately not embraced their country. Instead, they have in some things separated themselves and advertised the fact. That's even worse.

My parents were not born in Britain but I was. I see the pros & cons of living in England and its culture, and I have embraced being British. I do not go out of my way to wear the clothes of the country or culture that my parents came from. If I did, I would be conveying ...... what? that I want to be seen as different and separate? There's a reason why a person ignores mainstream Kultura and I think the reason is not healthy.

Inkata - So restricting the rights of Muslim women (against their will) will according to you, actually harm Muslim men.

So, in this case, Muslim women are just props to be used against Muslim men.

And you're ok with that?

Think of the arguments you are making and think how you would like it if someone used them against you.

You make culture sound like the Borg. A mosaic rather than a melting pot is my ideal. With certain absolutes like human rights and a secular criminal code.

X posted

Can't believe no one has mentioned the colour of the burkini.

It would be so much more comfortable for these ladies to wear a lightet colour - why does it have to be black?

They'll absolutely bake!

Same question re: burka /abaya, why is it always black? Especially in Saudi etc were the men wear white because of the intense heat, obviously makes more sense.

IPityThePontipines

I believe it is a practice that has evolved from sexism and therefore the men, (Muslim men) are being criticised here by the French. Muslim men wear shorts when they swim, not burkinis so the modesty motive does not appear to work both ways for men and women. It's unequal.

You may say women make this choice - but to what extent is this choice influenced by years of conditioning by men to behave 'modestly'. Governments are supposed to protect women from discrimination, and this practice (and the men behind it) has now been openly challenged.

"At lot of people who don't believe in religion will be able to tell you a ghostly experience they had. I have a few in my family. I believed in ghosts but not that they were dead relatives. I became interested in Jinn and that led me to read more about Islam."

Are you saying all that with a straight face?

You were so sceptical and an atheist before because your supernatural ghosties didn't have a head ghostie/godhead ghostie. You didn't believe daft things like your ghosties were the ghosties of dead relatives. No sir. Your supernatural ghosties were something else.

You have now radically transformed your beliefs because you believe your ghosties or genies have a head ghostie/godhead ghostie.

From what you say, you were not the least bit gullible wrt the supernatural. A right sceptic in supernatural beliefs you were!

These women belong to a religion where they are owned by men and are obedient to men. They are not equal to men, do not have equal rights, and the limited range of clothing they must wear is designed to advertise this. I applaud any country that rejects this sexism – well done France.

LImer
You seem to condemn sexism but embrace racism.

Ikanta

Some Muslim men will not go to the beach/ mixed swimming pools . Some will wear t shirts and three quarter length trousers when swimming. It varies from man to man just as does for Muslim women .

each to their own . Live and let live.

*Toffee boffin
*
Different regions have different colours. If you look at the traditional dress of North Africa they are multicoloured or certain colours reflect regional heritage.

In some areas White is associated with being a hajj or a widow. Depends on the area.

They are actually cooling to wear in hot weather.

Also they are only for outside the house and traditionally people will leave the house when it is cooler (shopping early or late in evening)

"These women belong to a religion where they are owned by men and are obedient to men"

Now you are just inventing stuff

"You were so sceptical and an atheist before because your supernatural ghosties didn't have a head ghostie/godhead ghostie. You didn't believe daft things like your ghosties were the ghosties of dead relatives. No sir. Your supernatural ghosties were something else."

I didn't want to laugh at all that because the poor girl was about 15 when she made the decision that Islam is the religion for her because it sort of covers her belief in ghosts.

But you are right of course. Of all the reasons I have heard from people on why they have faith, this one definitely takes the

Your parents must be devastated. My DD is going to be 15 in a few years and there aren't many worse fates for her I can imagine than her coming home one day saying she decided to cover herself head to toe from now on because she believes in ghosts and Islam talks about Djinns.

"how is the solution banning burkinis?"

Probably the same way the solution was to ban burqas several years back. With overwhelming public support, too.

Probably the same way the solution was to ban burqas several years back. With overwhelming public support, too

Isn't the burqa ban in place to counteract public covering of the face ? ... an eminent reasonable and understandable move.

That's very different to banning burkinis - which have no facial veil component.

Couldn't agree more Mistress. There are very good reasons not to cover faces and I believe (happy to hear otherwise) that as a general rule humans should be able to see each other's faces.

Burkinis are just like wet suits or stinger suits. I can't see how it makes the world a better place. And still no actual answer. Just 'public support'. Lots of people voted for Hitler, doesn't make them right.

France did not, it only allows one culture ie the french (secular) one and it passes laws to enforce it. eg it bans words like: email, blog, supermodel, take-away, chewing gum, parking, weekend, low-cost airline, hash tag... all to protect the French culture.

france wrote the book on how to do secularism badly. it's very different from the american (and sensible) idea of secularism: the state stays neutral. in france they ram secularism down your throat in a way that would make the Saudi's proud. freedom of thought, conscience and religion? sorry, not in the libre republic.

I say this as an atheist and secularist. run from the way the french do it.

"american (and sensible) idea of secularism: the state stays neutral."

You must be joking. America is the farthest thing from a secular country

"In God We Trust" on their money, Every president's speech ending with "God bless America", politicians professing faith in their God at every opportunity in a way that would be unthinkable in most of Europe. In which way is it remotely secular?

in france they ram secularism down your throat in a way that would make the Saudi's proud. freedom of thought, conscience and religion?

No, still heaps better than Saudi - what with the no driving, men & women stoned to death, gays executed. I've been around Paris and never seen a hanging gallows, Habenero.

You make culture sound like the Borg

No, the Borg is what the West is trying to resist! Most of us do not want to be forced to belong to an ideology that believes any means to its end is righteous, even shooting strangers sitting in a restaurant. Je sui Charlie.

in france they ram secularism down your throat in a way that would make the Saudi's proud. freedom of thought, conscience and religion?

I've lived in both places. There's no comparison.

So how many of you would be as vociferously supportive of my wearing a bikini on a public beach in Jeddah?

Because if we are really and truly promoting inclusion, equality and respect for other cultural and religious beliefs, that's where we should be making a noise.

Religion and progression will often clash

What is valued more freedom of religious practice or progression in society where men and women are equals

I live in France. I'm a non-believing, non-practicing Anglican and my DP is a non-believing, non-practicing Alsacian Jew. Our DC attend(ed) Catholic school. Our DC have been at school with many DC of different backgrounds, including Muslims. We go to baptisms, first communions, confirmations, bris and bar mitzvahs.

That is French laïcité. Everyone getting on with their own religion as they think fit in a mild-mannered, discreet way.