Burkini banned in France

[LifeIsGoodish]

Instead of teaching people to behave with respect to each other.

Burkini banned in France

If you see them how are they being hidden away? If they are active in society mixing with other people from different cultures but just dressing differently, then how are they being hidden away?
Restricting what you can wear whilst doing certain activities is what will make Muslim women hide away. But like I said before a good Muslim is an invisible Muslim right-?
I learned the religion without the cutural bias that is blended in when you are raised in a Muslim country so I know that a lot of the bullshit comes from ingrained cultural practices. Good for you that you know Muslim women that don't cover, I also know some myself but we don't purge judgement on each other we get along just fine.

If I can only describe a women as being wrapped in a black cloth I can only say she is probably Muslim, I can not describe her ethnic background, her age, her social class, her personality, I can't not read her expression and there is a barrier between us

So yes I can see her but I can not see a person that is hidden from me

"Even though I was atheist I still used to believe in ghosts and my interest in Islam came when I learned about the Jinn."

Jeepers, Atlas, an atheist who believes in ghosts. You had a long way to travel to regard it as a religious epiphany to believe in jinn or genies. Not.

Then why don't you try to engage in a conversation with her? Talk about the weather or something. You can't judge her except for the fact that she is Muslim that is probably what she wants. I like to be identified as a Muslim, why not? Also the reason we wear darker colours is that is our outer clothing we don't wear that at home. It is likely that she is wearing that for a few days before she washes it so black will keep it looking cleaner. Have a look in your wardrobe,what colours are most of your coats, jackets and shoes? I would guess they at a darker colour. It is the same sort of thing. I have black, brown and blue abayas all with different styles and materials. I wear the black ones the most as I don't have to be so careful to iron the whole thing and can get away with a few smudges on it. When I come home I take off my scarf abd abaya. I don't put them back on unless I am praying but even then I might just put a nightgown on.

she (whoever she is) might only want to be seen as being a Muslim women

The point I am making that is in no way progressive for women they are individuals when that is hidden they are just a Muslim women

At lot of people who don't believe in religion will be able to tell you a ghostly experience they had. I have a few in my family. I believed in ghosts but not that they were dead relatives. I became interested in Jinn and that led me to read more about Islam. It wasn't instant, maybe 5 months and even then it was a slow transgression. It was very self-conflicting, I had been an atheist from a very early age plus I grew up during 9/11,the Iraq war and 7/7.

"I learned the religion without the cutural bias that is blended in when you are raised in a Muslim country so I know that a lot of the bullshit comes from ingrained cultural practices."

As I said, you know bestest and nobody can know better than you because you converted to Islam when 16 and learned all about it in the UK

You were taught with the bias of whoever you learned it from, in the UK. You know a very limited number of Muslims, most of whom I would guess go to the same mosque and are in the same community. Growing up in a Muslim country, you are exposed to many different interpretations, sects, and practices. You learn that variation happens and that it's not all cast in stone.

All stuff that I sincerely think you would benefit from. As long as you shake off this belief that only you know Islam.

Also it shows that you can't judge people by the way they dress. If she was a certain age or race would they make you treat her differently?

It wouldn'be treating her differently

The point being is that I wouldn't know a veil hides that all away and restricts communication

I wouldn't ....

Not it

I learned online and from books when someone says something to me I verify it. Again I never said I know "bestest" that is just childish and dismisive. I live in a very diverse area w10. Their are Moroccan, Egyptians, Somalians, Algerians and Bengalias I'm sure there's more ethnicities in this area. They all practice differently which is nothing wrong with that but I know from experience that they do things that they think are a religious requirement which are not just because that's what people do back in their country. I was told when I was pregnant not to breastfeed my other child because it was haram to breastfeed if you are pregnant. I couldn't find anything to back them up but still they would say that they had spoken to so and so back home and no one does it there. That's just one example.
I know there is more than one way to practice Islam. Which is why, getting back to the point of this thread, I shouldn't be told that I am oppressed and forced to wear a Burkini at the beach and that the French and freeing me because there are certain people that are forced. Neither should I be forced to uncover just to help those women have free choice. Taking away my free choice to give it to someone else is wrong.

Corsica can ban whatever it likes. In most MENA countries, visitors are expected to cover arms & legs, and definitely no regular swimwear for women allowed. You seem to be okay with that, right?

The French feel under siege from Islamic terrorists. The burkini is like a woman's ISIS uniform. When you hear stories of Muslims attacking/killing girls for wearing bikinis and swimsuits it must be scary to go to a beach.

Wouldn't it be similar to dress up as a Nazis and walk around in Germany?

Why can't muslim women cover up in something other than a burkini? Its possible to completely cover your body in 'normal' clothes. The issue is really about the religion but France is a secular country so its fair to say wear them at home but its not on to wear them in public. As a democracy if the people dont like it, their are ways to change the law.

This has been discussed previously. Normal clothes are not suitable for swimming. A Burkini is not a uniform of Isis (?!) who I doubt would let women go swimming with a mixed group anyway. Because a MENA country does something doesn't mean that all Muslims agree with it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Need I go on...

Unfortunately that's what terrorism does, it makes you more defensive and I guess France is running out of patience with extreme Islam and its iconography. Maybe it makes them less tolerant but it is human nature.

One of the ways we overcome this was by ridiculing things but they tried that in France and we had Charlie Hebdo. So even using humor to combat Islamism was stopped.

France is saying we are not a religious country, we do not tolerate overt religions, start integrating because we don't have any more tolerance for dangerous religions.

MrsTP
Is that freedom? I don't love how society socialized her that way but is banning what she wears better? Of course not. I'm not saying the burka is better. I'm saying these are just two faces of the patriarchy.

Agreed. I think a lot of people are missing the point regarding what's motivating the ban. I'm also aghast at the patronising tone of all those posters "saving" Muslim women and as someone else has already said, this is turning into a Muslim- bashing thread.

I would like to hear Muslim women’s take on what they consider to be immodest dress. Dressing modestly does NOT mean enveloping yourself in metres of fabric in order when out on the high st in high summer, while your husband walks alongside in a tight & sleeveless T-shirt and shorts.

I have always dressed modestly, but surely in summer I should be allowed to wear a sleeveless dress without getting ‘bad’ looks in my own country from MENA men and a few women? Again, in high summer, I see no problem with a sleeveless blouse and longish shorts to go shopping in without getting looks of disapproval.

Why am I being silently criticised for behaving normally and appropriately?

Summer is the time to store up vitamin D for the rest of the year. I cannot think of any nation or faith (except those mentioned above) who objects to women dressing lightly in summer. In fact, it is positively abnormal to cover arms and legs during high temperatures, and avoid topping up the Vit D.

I put on a headscarf when I enter church, but remove it when I leave. To those Muslim women who may not be British-born - are you ever going to take a step to joining in with the normalcy of Western life?

Summer is the time to store up vitamin D for the rest of the year. I cannot think of any nation or faith (except those mentioned above) who objects to women dressing lightly in summer. In fact, it is positively abnormal to cover arms and legs during high temperatures, and avoid topping up the Vit D. Summer for us blondes is the time to hide under shade wile wearing a hat and as many clothes as possible. To avoid turning into a shriveled lobster. Go to Southern Med countries and yo see plenty of people in long sleeves and trousers in Summer, especially in the cities. . National dress in Mexico is a long skirt.

As for The burkini is like a woman's ISIS uniform? What a load of utter bollocks. With a side order of twaddle.

I am enjoining in the everyday normal 'british' life. I haven't changed much since I became Muslim. Everyone in the UK has been told to take vitamin d supplements whether you cover or not www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36846894 what would your suggestion be for them?
I'm actually cooler wearing a very loose one piece item than when I used to wear a skirt and strappy top. The rays of the sun that made me hot don't touch my skin and I get a beautiful breeze. Some men do in fact wear long robes you should know that since you are in a middle eastern country after all. There are also Muslim women who don't wear the abaya I'm sure you have seen them too.

'Dressing modestly does NOT mean enveloping yourself in metres of fabric in order when out on the high st in high summer, while your husband walks alongside in a tight & sleeveless T-shirt and shorts.'

Yes, that to me looks so unfair on the woman. That has to be inequality.

I saw a few couples on Oxford Street yesterday dressed just like that. It was sweltering - must have been 30 degrees.

MrsTerryPratchett - Your response is pathetic and you are scrabbling for a reason to dress up in summer. Just returned from Barcelona, and before that southern Italy - no woman was covered up. Sunglasses, sunhat or visor, shorts, sleeveless top were the order of the day. The more formal wore sleeveless dresses, bare legs.

Been to Mexico. It is only women who work outdoors for long hours who wear long skirt.

Florida last year - all dressed appropriately for the summer heat.

But that depends on the country and culture. My blood boils when I see men wearing speedos while women cover even their faces. However, in somewhere like Morocco you see Western dress and burkas on women; and on men Western dress and djellabas. No one giving anyone else shit about it.

Just returned from Barcelona, and before that southern Italy - no woman was covered up. Must have missed me then, because I was there and covered up. I think I might know, what with having lived there for years. I never wear sleeveless anything in Italy. And visit regularly. I think appropriate dress is covered from the sun.

I suppose you loathe Viet Nam as well, with all the hats, scarves and gloves in the Summer?

I'm actually cooler wearing a very loose one piece item than when I used to wear a skirt and strappy top

Is that your primary reason for dressing in that way, or is it just fencing with words? Any scarf on the head in summer helps to retain body heat overall.

About 5 yrs ago I knew three Muslim ladies who lived in my street, and they told me candidly that from an early age they had to develop a knack of ignoring the heat when it got very bad. They explained it to me and I was, to a certain degree, able to practise it for myself but it required focus.

As for The burkini is like a woman's ISIS uniform? What a load of utter bollocks.

Apologies, got dresses mixed up, I actually meant to say. The burka is like a woman's Isis uniform and the burkini relates to it.