Junior Doctors Strike

[Lanchester]

Do the Junior Doctors seriously think that they are still
respected for always putting the interest of their individual patient first?

A student capable of getting a place on a degree in medicine is more than capable of doing another science degree. Of course if you were primarily motivated by money you probably wouldn't choose medicine in the first place - maths or physics will give you a good shot at a lot of jobs in finance, and any good science degree will give you opportunities in industry (you might need an MSc or PhD first, but anyone capable of sticking out a medical degree wouldn't have any problem with that).

If you change your mind once you already have a medical degree then I imagine there are still plenty of openings - some might require a bit more study first. I work for a large manufacturing company that employs lots of scientists with a medical background in our R&D and biomedical businesses. I imagine that it would be easy enough to move into pharma too.

And obviously a lot of doctors stay in medicine but move abroad to practice (and it sounds like Wales ans Scotland are benefiting from this right now ).

There are a group of wealthy middle class people that believe if they study hard (their parents made them), work hard (they do), care for people (they say they do) then they are entitled to a subsidised education, a job for life, a good pension and a generous middle class income, no matter what.

There are a lot of people in this country that study hard, work hard, and care for people, that don't get a generous income, pension, job... I think doctors want the benefits of last century with the protections of this century, no matter how much it hurts the rest of the country and the people in it.

There is a definite sense of entitlement here and I think its wrong. A lot of people don t support JD but they are to busy working, to stay solvent, to make a big deal of it.

There is a very small market for private work for junior doctors. Not specialist training but the pay is very good. £72 000 a year with all your GMC and indemnity fees paid for (self funded for NHS doctors) and various other perks. It's working as a disability assessor and the hours are office hours with no unsocial shifts or weekends and no on calls.

And yet they have trouble filling these jobs and NHS doctors who earn much, much less than this are fighting a pay cut

I'm not surprised they can't fill those jobs, it sounds very boring and career suicide.

I think you missed my point

When You go into cut throat industries like banking you are pushed out after a 10 career.. You take the risk instead of the state taking the risk
Sure, an 18 year old with A stars and a first could get a job offer from an investment bank. But a dr gets what the rest of us lost long ago- -a job for life with a pension backward by the state

Backed. ..

Very few jobs in banking for nice Girls with A stars and how many part time roles do you think there are?. seven?

This.

I was responding to running, not you trigg - apologies.

I agee with that. But this is the bubble problem. It is astonishing when GP friends complain about their pensions, they are clueless. I don't think it is arrogance

"There are a lot of people in this country that study hard, work hard, and care for people, that don't get a generous income, pension, job... I think doctors want the benefits of last century with the protections of this century, no matter how much it hurts the rest of the country and the people in it. "

The job is probably boring and likely soul destroying but doubt it will be career suicide. There are so many unfilled posts at the moment that anecdotally during the last round of specialist training interviews there were more posts than shortlisted candidates.

For someone who cannot financially weather the new contract in August this could be a stop gap measure whilst applying for another job outside England.

Sadly,. The partner in my law firm would also recruit female trainees " for a ten year career".....[ their word}

drs need to understand that their job security and pensions have an enormous value that is all down to chance

"I think doctors want the benefits of last century with the protections of this century, no matter how much it hurts the rest of the country and the people in it. "

actually they are not being unreasonable to want this, I would like it too!

I think it is really sad that the partner in you law firm thinks this way. I am fully appreciative of the changes the NHS has made to allow for women to continue with their careers. It's not just women who go less than full time, though... The rest of society should be trying to catch up with this, not denigrate it.

The job security is only there because there is a demand for doctors and especially at the moment, very short supply. I'm the only medic in my family. The rest are ironically in banking. So I do understand the stress of the annual breath holding when redundancies are announced.

Surely you can't be saying that because we have job security we should put up and shut up when our pay is being slashed, workload increased and hours monitoring removed? The pay cut may affect doctors but the workload and hours monitoring has a direct effect on patient care and safety.

When You go into cut throat industries like banking you are pushed out after a 10 career

It depends what you do in banking. I am sure that some of the highest paid jobs are indeed cut-throat and short-term, but there are plenty of jobs out there for people with good numerate degrees that pay a decent wage - maybe not top whack, but decent compared to a typical JD. I was quite shocked to learn how little a JD with several years experience earns - especially when you consider that they may be in sole charge of very sick patients whose lives are literally in their hands. My job may be moderately stressful sometimes but if I fuck up no one dies and I don't get sued.

The strike was enlightening. Amazing how many people manage to stay away when they think they'll be faced with excessive waiting times.

I have never ever seen A&E as quiet. Ever.

How was it post strike Grays? I was on call the night before the strikes and the hospital was teeming with doctors. Felt like everyone stayed late to get everything as sorted as possible for the strikes, and some went in after five pm the first day to do the same for day 2.

Because it had been so quiet for 2 days I expected the first non-strike day to be bedlam, I was pleasantly surprised. It was okay. Wasn't overly busy, wasn't even comparable to an average busy day.

It depends what you do in banking. I am sure that some of the highest paid jobs are indeed cut-throat and short-term, but there are plenty of jobs out there for people with good numerate degrees that pay a decent wage - maybe not top whack, but decent compared to a typical JD

What bonkers reasoning. Those jobs are not going to the places a junior doctor is destined for. You can't compare them. Two words that aren't used enough on this thread. Life-time salary.

I'd be more sympathetic to the JDs if they weren't so gleefully militant during the strikes. They say they're weeping into their stethoscopes etc. but the party atmosphere, when people are missing out on surgery etc. that they are entitled to, was rather sickening.

That's an interesting persective gonetosee lots were giving free BLS lessons to children and parents. Fucking selfish bastards

Funny that gone, because a lot of JDs did this www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/01/12/junior-doctors-strike-nhs-teach-public-cpr-picket-line_n_8962708.html

Oh and people are entitled to fair and safe working conditions. They're also entitled to strike. So lets not talk about entitlement.

x post mrsmorton Glad it wasn't just me who saw this.

I saw quite a lot of junior doctors giving cpr lessons in the shopping centre. Funny how the tv news manages to omit clips of all the life saving lessons that have been happening.

No impact upon patients on our ward.

Lots of organisation & planning went in pre strike and the strike days ran smoothly