Junior Doctors Strike

[Lanchester]

Do the Junior Doctors seriously think that they are still
respected for always putting the interest of their individual patient first?

lanchester you seem to be living in a parallel world where spare GPs grow on trees. In fact there is a recruitment crisis, which partly explains why burnout is such a big issue in general practice right now. How do you propose to fill vacant posts?

I'm not a doctor. My bluff has not been called.

Has anyone looked into why the NHS is exempt from the monopolies laws? Why can't private entities provide training contracts as they do in the legal sector (as long as they meet criteria)?

Mistigry
Well they are certainly not "two a penny" but reducing total salaries and benefits to doctors will mean that more doctors can be afforded.
I actually think it is wrong for the NHS to poach doctors from poor countries but the NHS takes many doctors from overseas. And no doubt the reduced salaries here will still attract them. Actually, if Australia is so open to immigrant doctors it seems odd that the foreign origin doctors now working in the NHS didn't all choose to work in Australia rather than choose the NHS where rewards are comparatively so poor (according to all the JDs threatening to flock to Australia).

Have the BMA considered the disproportionate effect of their strikes on disabled people. Is that not illegal disability discrimination?
Should individual BMA leaders be being prosecuted? Or should the BMA be fined and told to desist.

Today 15:56 lougle
"Why can't private entities provide training contracts as they do in the legal sector (as long as they meet criteria)?"
Well that sounds like quite a good idea so long as the private entities will pay the Full unsubsidised cost of JDs training to date and going forward.

The JDs will be able to see clearly the £ total costs of their training and the £ value of the supervised work that they are competent to do whilst training.

I don't understand the JD contract system at all. Do you have to sign a new one every year or two? Is that how Hunt can change the contract terms?

Juniors change jobs a lot. They move hospital, speciality and progress up through the different grades. Dh had about 8 (I think ) different jobs before becoming a consultant. In 7 different hospitals across three regions. Plus 3 years out for research.

New contract everytime. Plus three house moves.

Juniors change jobs a lot. They move hospital, speciality and progress up through the different grades. Dh had about 8 (I think ) different jobs before becoming a consultant. In 7 different hospitals across three regions

So Tilder surely it's only when a JD decides to take up a new contract that he/she can accept or reject the new terms the employer is offering?
Have the contracts been standard throughout the NHS in terms of pay, hours and conditions up to now?

A

Today 16:48
".....are you beginning to get the feeling you're pretty much out on your own here with your anti-JD rhetoric? "
Loads of contributing posters have said they do NOT support the JDs.
Take off your blinkers?

Mountaintoclimb yes, contract terms are standardised. If you work in A&E in one hospital, doing 50% nights and weekends, you should get exactly the same pay as a doctor of the same level at any other hospital who works in A&E doing 50% nights and weekends. The only difference may be the type of patient you see (e.g. one hospital may be a trauma centre whilst another may be a rural district hospital).

That was a reply to Draylon 's 16:48 question

Has anyone explained yet how the JDs are not prepared to work dangerously long hours at revised hourly saturday daytime rates, and they feel so strongly that they are withdrawing emergency care. BUT the JDs will happily work the same hors so long as the hourly rate remains unchanged?

Hours not hors

I thought Hunt was imposing changes mid contract ie to an existing ongoing contract, which would be very wrong and probably illegal (I'm not a lawyer) but it seems the changes he's making relate to the new and separate contract being offered. I can understand and sympathise with the JD for objecting to this but surely they can't legally force Hunt/employer/NHS to reinstate the existing one. IYSWIM. All they can do is vote with their feet if Hunt remains intrangicent.

Has anyone explained yet how the JDs are not prepared to work dangerously long hours at revised hourly saturday daytime rates, and they feel so strongly that they are withdrawing emergency care. BUT the JDs will happily work the same hors so long as the hourly rate remains unchanged?

Yes.

They have.

Many times.

As that is not what is happening.

As everyone reading this thread now knows.

Including you.

[I think you now call me names or say I must be a Junior Doctor or something. That's how this works, right?]

Either that or a medical luvvie pausing

Oooh, so thrilled, Lynnm sweetie darling!

(Is that how one luvvies? I might need practice...)

rachel I was basing my views on the plethora of blog posts and interviews in the media. My comment about private practice conditions was in response to the oft-repeated threat that if the NHS cannot give doctors as good a deal as they'd receive outside the NHS, they will simply abandon it. This has been said many times on other threads and was cited as being 'realistic'.

lanchester

Reducing Drs pay will reduce recruitment further.

You are really not getting the gist of this I'm afraid .

the oft-repeated threat that if the NHS cannot give doctors as good a deal as they'd receive outside the NHS, they will simply abandon it. This has been said many times on other threads and was cited as being 'realistic'

No one is suggesting that doctors will all up sticks and head abroad, or for better paid jobs in the private sector (whether in medicine or in other fields). There will always be people who put job satisfaction ahead of remuneration, and there's a good argument that many or even most doctors are in this group. If they were primarily motivated by money, they'd have taken their A* passes in science and maths, and gone into banking or industry.

But at the same time, it doesn't take much of an increase in the attrition rate to cause serious recruitment problems - especially in a profession where it takes many years to train replacements.

Loss of control over your working conditions..and feeling undervalued by your employer are powerful contributors to burnout and to loss of job satisfaction.
This is why Drs are imploring for understanding and fair treatment.
They have given JH chance after chance to backtrack...it isn't happening.
To accept the imposition of an unfavourable contract with reduced pay would be impossible under these circumstances.
Many will relocate to Wales and Scotland...many I know already have, because let's not forget that the jobs for August are now getting sorted out. Those that were going to go on a training pathway in England, will be reconsidering their position, and this will mean filling in for a year instead, and reapplying next year in Scotland and Wales.
The GP recruitment for Wales is much better this year for August.
Maybe what the public don't know is that a lot of Drs change contract in August and anyone can leave by giving notice. There is plenty of work available to relocate.
In England I would seriously recommend contacting your MPs if you want to help.. Or if you are worried about the way 24 HR emergency care will be covered in England from August ...if a hospital can't come up with a sufficient no of JDs to cover round the clock emergency care, it closes, simple as that, the acute admissions and AE cannot manage without those Drs.

What is this" industry" where one takes ones A level grades and lives happily ever after?

And banking..... how many women over the age of26 are there in this fantasy banking world.....I'm imagining all the45 year old female part time bankers on squiluons a year...... why are they not on mumsnet?

Because they don't exist?

In fact they don't make it to26
'Women comprise 35.2% of all employees in investment banking and securities dealing, according to figures from the U.S. Equal Opportunities Commission, but they hold just 15% of executive or senior level positions. It’s not just at the senior end where women get a short shrift in finance, though – our figures suggest that trading, information technology, quantitative finance, private equity and capital markets are still lagging when it comes to recruiting women.'

very few jobs in banking for nice Girls with A stars and how many part time roles do you think there are?. seven?