Junior Doctors Strike

[Lanchester]

Do the Junior Doctors seriously think that they are still
respected for always putting the interest of their individual patient first?

Their is a reality check that a few professions still have to go through: Our UK does not have unlimited money, most professionals have realized and adapted, but medicine still thinks its was/is an anomaly and we can go back to the old way of working where you work hard and you get paid lots.

NO. Just NO. Why has intelligence gone out the window?

Why has intelligence gone out the window?
The irony.

The irony.

Urban you've ignored all points made here and it makes you look stupid. The UK doesn't have unlimited money, OBVIOUSLY, which is why it's ridiculous of Hunt to promise a seven day elective NHS when we haven't the staff, money and resources to do it.

Medicine should 'realize' (are you american, if so why are you commenting?) and adapt? Adapt to conditions that threaten their livelihoods (in particular women) and patient lives? Nah.

Race to the bottom. Thats what people think it is. Other people get treated like shit so think everyone else should just sit down like good little boys and girls and accept it too.

My god mrsmorton are you me?!! 2 times cross posted with the exact things ha

Are you in bed watching Scott & Bailey? If so then possibly...

Haha I have Frankie Boyle on but you had me slightly worried...

urbanfox yesterday 23:29
is right in what he says - yet his opinion is immediately denigrated by the likes of Mrsmorton and GraysAnalogy.

I referee to urban fox as 'he', but of course maybe the correct reference is 'she'. Sorry if that was incorrect.

Referred not referee

Himalayanrock Fri 29-Apr-16 19:54:39
is right in what she says - yet her opinion is immediately denigrated by the likes of lanchester

See how this works?

You enter a debate, you should expect your points to be countered. Otherwise you aren't ready.

juniordoctorblog.com/2016/04/29/jeremy-lets-have-a-conversation/

Other people get treated like shit so think everyone else should just sit down like good little boys and girls and accept it too.

There's an awful lot of this attitude on here, not just when it comes to employment either. I for one am glad that the JDs have had the courage to stick their heads above the parapet.

JDs will do what they think they have to do...public opinion will not count that much towards their decision about not applying for a job in England for August, or even leaving a current training number in England in August.
It will be universally unpopular to work in England and numbers will be down. Some might leave medicine altogether , or take a break.
A collective mass resignation in England for those that already have posts is also a real possibility . Those that don't already have posts just won't choose to go there. A lot of people will probably do locums for a year while things are so toxic and unpredictable.

I have cancer - granted not that serious but I do need surgery and I had my consultant's meeting cancelled this week as he was covering junior docs - putting my op back a couple of weeks and I have spent time in hospital with my son - once for a month at a time but usually for three or four days (he has asthma) and they always want to get you out of hospital at the weekends as there is no staff on!!! I have felt insecure some times at the weekends -

roselover as a junior doc I am truly sorry that it has come to this and your surgery has been postponed. I would also welcome an open debate on how to optimise weekend services.
I am however quite clear that putting more doctors on duty at the weekend without increasing our overall number or hours can only be achieved by reducing weekday cover. I cannot see how that is in any way safer, as it is during the week that the bulk of clinical activity takes place, and I don't think that will change in the near future (if indeed it is desirable or affordable for it to change).
I suspect (but of course I don't know) that part of the perceived rush to discharge your son before the weekend was the fact that discharges are more logistically difficult at the weekend (Drs have to focus on emergencies so not free to process paperwork, reduced availability of pharmacy services to process medications, reduced availability of community services). In my trust, work is being done to improve this at the moment.

Medical luvvies : "~ Yes we ALL do agree with each other daaahling - we are recognised as national treasures - priestesslike - our public love us - we will hear no ill of us. Our motives are principled - our actions are not forour own interests.
Therefore the serfs must pay more taxes to support us - it is our right. OUR RIGHT ! ~"

Far far to the north (though ....the dragons had better perspective
they could see that the Luvvies were receding towards an event horizon - beyond which the Luvvies would be in an alternative reality all of their own.
The Luvvies vaguely wondered why they could hear no opinions but their own - but on a comfortable gravy train they were loath to question themselves rigorously.
Other opinions faded and dimmed then suddenly - POUF there was no more dissenting voices - no information could penetrate their reality.
The Luvvies did not know it but the dragons could see that the event horizon had been passed - from then on no information would be able to reach the Luvvies from non-Luvviedom.
They didn't notice as their comfortable bubble contracted its world view until POP their Luvviedom world view bubble burst and they were scattered on the wind as the NHS ceased to exist in the form they knew it.

The JDs are actually right in diagnosing what is obvious to all i.e. that the NHS is seriously unwell and faltering.

However their suggested Treatment plan "more of the same"

seems negligent

as they carelessly watch the NHS fade away - 'on their watch' !

The NHS needs to make more efficient use of resources to achieve better outcomes for patients.
Resources such as:
fixed assets - especially Friday afternoon through Sunday
Staff Salaries and benefits - should not exceed affordable levels
if the NHS continues to be so inefficient, eventually it will be replaced.
The BMA should peer out of their bubble and make sure that they start noticing that they are approaching a world view event horizon which could have existential significance for the future of the NHS quite soon.

You're talking out if your arse. Everyone in the NHS knows things have to change. In fact we are BEGGING for some changes. But we don't get those. Oh no we who know the NHS, it's staff and patients on the front line apparently don't know enough about it. We can't possibly know what our people need.

It's nice how you think you know best though Lanchester.

Greys given that you think doctors should be paid so very much more than anyone else in the NHS and you are only prepared to consider the NHS going on in a form that will mean doctors pay is commensurate with salaries of the highest private professions in the country (because of course every last one of you could easily have all been at the very top lawyer and banker levels if you weren't so altruistic, therefore you should recieve the same level of pay as you would have done if you WEREN'T so altruistic)...I don't think jds are in an objective position to decide what changes should be made. Working conditions are awful everywhere- no one would choose them but it's not fair to make doctors exempt from it at the tax payers expense. The truth is you couldn't ask have plucked a comparable salary off the bushes because half of you don't have the gifts, there aren't enough jobs and a great many of you clearly can't cope with stress and long hours without going part time and expecting to still be financially very comfortable. That doesn't happen outside medicine. Half of you are saying you can't afford to live on your full time wage so might leave medicine, the other half are saying you work part time (and manage to live on it well) because the job is so unpleasant. Half of you are saying you don't expect to be paid commensurate with other top professions, just not a pay cut please, and rather more than half are saying medicine must pay top salaries to retain any doctors. It doesn't make sense-there isn't a cohesive voice there at all. Except that you do the hardest job in the world and a clear sense that you are superior to every other profession in terms of skill and have it harder than every other profession despite having escaped much of the job insecurity etc that are making working conditions hell for millions in the country.

couldn't ALL have plucked...

Well the thing is I'm not a junior doctor. So most of your post is irrelevant.

I haven't said I think they should be paid so much more have I? Nope. But let's be honest here, people aren't going to work as a doctor for a pittance giving the amount of time and effort, life long learning and sheer responsibility. Oh and the exams that cost hundreds of pounds a go. And you're trying to pit two arguments against each other that actually go hand in hand. This whole debacle isn't about more money is it. No one is asking for more money, but they'd quite like to retain what they currently get.

To be honest your post is frothing with bitterness. Again as I said before, you're racing to the bottom. Instead of wanting to drag standards down to the 'millions of people in hell' why don't you put your time and effort into fighting for improvement for them?

www.thecanary.co/2016/04/28/piers-morgan-suggests-junior-doctor-striking-cash-happens-next-fantastic-video/

Very eloquent

I knew you weren't a JD actually. I started off speaking to you and it was easier to keep going in that vein. I'm not that interested in what you as an individual think-in engaging with the various lines coming out of the body of jds. I think you're the one who is having to resort to disparaging language rather than stay on topic...I have no bitterness against doctors but I don't like the disingenuousness I've seen in recent months. The jds however do come across as having a massive victim complex which must be taking a toll on their morale; they are very, very bitter and I don't think would deny that. As for a race to the bottom, nope. However we can't and shouldn't artificially protect one group.

Men and women are equal in law - men and women have the same responsibility to provide childcare - female junior doctors are a particularly able section of the population and know that both parents have parental responsibility for their children.
To say otherwise is just to entrench acceptance that women are somehow 'lesser'.

I think Dr Malik also complained that the contract in particular discriminated against "disabled" people, yet the JDs she speaks for are discriminating against SICK VULNERABLE and DISABLED parts of the population in a much more serious manner because of their strikes.
In fact the BMA seem to be ignoring any question of liability for disability discrimination arising out of their decisions.

So really Dr Malik was eloquent only like a junior lawyer picking the parts of a document that suited her argument, and ignoring the rest.