Junior Doctors Strike

[Lanchester]

Do the Junior Doctors seriously think that they are still
respected for always putting the interest of their individual patient first?

Yes agree with *gonetoseesmanabouta...

Lanchester* (apologies for any offence caused) but you clearly have a massive underlying chip on shoulder personal vendetta against junior doctors

Curious as to what job you do and why you feel need have the time/ can be bothered to be present on this thread 24/7 for general slagging off of medical personnel

have you considered that the people supporting your views could be a self reinforcing group of medical luvvies though?

Well, there's one of the central fallacies in your thinking, Lanchester. I wondered from one of your responses to a post of mine whether you were assuming I was a medic - and indeed it appears that you assume that of everyone who doesn't agree with you.

So, just for the record, I'm another hardworking taxpayer. And yes, I'm taking a break from working at 12.42 a.m.

EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO WITHDRAW THEIR LABOUR. ITS NOT DERELICTION OF DUTY ITS THEIR LEGAL RIGHT.

I suspect that in 1888 Lanchester would have described the striking match girls as being in dereliction of their duty. And, not much later, those dreadful suffragettes were acting in dereliction of their duties in the kitchen.

I think you need to see a dr Lanchester
You asked about my last post, read it again

Come on Lanchester, out yourself. Are you the Cunt? His PA? Or, (and this is clever) someone who is actually pro the NHS trying to rile MNetters to respond and post more stuff to support this strike? In which case, thank you.

Trying to get some stirring comments for the daily fail maybe

MissTrggs
Podiatry is not a medical specialty but an entirely different degree !!

A lot of your stuff seems to be criticising the messenger rather than the message.

That's a bit toch coming from you Lanchester seeing as you dismissed my arguements and wrote a lengthy post accusing me of being a greedy medic. And then ignored my next message saying im not a doctor.

JDs should be able to be honest and clear and to state their case simply and clearly.
At present they have failed to communicate that to the public and their case sounds weak and confused

Yet the vast majority of MN members posting on here, and a very clear majority of the public generally, do support the strike. So the JDs appear to have been rather more effective in communicating their case than the government ...

I do not support the Drs strike.
When both your parents are unwell and needing treatment, having had numerous appointments cancelled plus an operation, I'm sure you'd see things in a different light.
DH is a consultant and is sick to the back teeth of covering for the Drs.
My DDad was a GP and dedicated his life to PATIENT CARE. Wages were no where near as high as they are in today's money but he would never have gone on strike. He cared too much for his patients.
The Drs were laughing at the previous government when they put their wages up so high that many of them are working part time now. 85% of Drs in our local health centre work part time. Why wouldn't you when you can get paid £110,000 pa?
Stop ruining the NHS-junior Drs, get back to work, including weekends, just like the rest of us.

Not so simple when their labour is saving lives, Augusta. How would you feel if your child was choking and the ambulance drivers were all on strike? Incidentally they were shafted lately, have to work incredibly unsocial hours, have all the responsibility of an er doctor for the period the patient is in their care, are paid a pittance and are not on strike.

JDs are not putting lives at risk because they are giving advanced warning and their work is being covered by Consultants and ENPs. They are foregoing their salary for the day that they strike.

JDs have been left no choice. JH has refused to negotiate. He has autocratically refused a compromise deal that would have been cost-neutral. As JDs can't go to another employer, their only recourse is to resign from medicine or strike against their employer.

Paramedics have given junior doctors their support, and are shortly to be balloted on strike action themselves. Ambulance staff did take strike action in 2014. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29582397

Paramedics do a fantastic job. One of my close friends is one and ive thought about applying for training. However generally trainee paramedics havent got 3x A* at a levels enabling them to have a highly paid career of choice.

Junior doctors on the other hand have and the risk is that if medicine isn't an attractive career these are the sort of people who may well choose to go into law, banking, business management, etc. They could already do this and earn more money but they love medicine......that love for the job will only take them so far.

Rennie23 if you asked the doctors in your health centre why they work part time, I'm sure most of them would cite the increasingly unmanageable workload in primary care. GP stress and burn out is at an all time high, and there is a major recruitment crisis. Many older GPs are retiring and their posts cannot be filled.

Things are not as rosy as you suggest.

rennie many consultants are delighted to cover for the juniors because they know that the negotiation over their contract is next, and if the juniors roll over and accept imposition then their bargaining position is weakened too. Same goes for the GPs.

Doctors would not necessarily make successful lawyers and bankers. Not do we presently have a problem filling medical schools.

It is also not the case that every paramedic supports jds strike action. Jds are doing their utmost to create a culture where anyone in the NHS who doesn't agree are vilified and shouted down. They are being disingenuous, I think, and there are enormous contradictions about prioritising patient care while threatening to leave if the cash strapped NHS cannot provide the equivalent to private practice conditions. I'm not saying the new contract is a good or even that things don't need to change, but jds need to grow up and take constructive criticism on the policies of their campaign (which the public won't support forever), understand there are whopping benefits to working in the public sector which they would not enjoy in their rose tinted life as a banker, appreciate that far from funding their own education it would have cost a heck of a lot more elsewhere, that their life time salary is nothing to feel self pitying about in today's world, and realise that all the moaning in the world will not get them money out of the pot if it's not there to start with.

Gonetoseeamanaboutadog yesterday 23:28

I did actually write you a longish reply but then I noticed a few other contributors were being rather abusive - so I decided not to post it - because some people on here seem so incensed that their entitlement bullshit is being named for what it is, that they are complaining about the messenger as they can't answer the message.

I think you are making some big and false assumptions about the motivations and attitudes of junior doctors. How many have you spoken to?
I personally am not trying to vilify anyone (other than Jeremy Hunt), certainly not other staff groups.
Equally, I am not interested in the slightest in my working conditions matching those in private practice. This is an irrelevant concept for junior doctors who cannot engage in private practice (and like many others I wouldn't want to even if I could).
This dispute is not about pay. It is about an already stretched 5 day service (with 7 day emergency care) being stretched further over 7 with no additional staffing or resources. The maths doesn't add up - it's dangerous as there will be less medical cover in the week when the bulk of planned activity takes place in addition to emergency care. Junior doctors have never asked for more money, we just want to be listened to because we can foresee this impending disaster.

andadietcoke
"rennie many consultants are delighted to cover for the juniors because they know that the negotiation over their contract is next, and if the juniors roll over and accept imposition then their bargaining position is weakened too. Same goes for the GPs."

Absolutely !
Well pointed out!
Pure self interest from other HCPs
So JDs et al
Stop the insincere canting " its all about protecting patients ...its not about our money... Etc..."

lougle. today at 14:11
"JDs are not putting lives at risk because they are giving advanced warning and their work is being covered by Consultants and ENPs. They are foregoing their salary for the day that they strike.

JDs have been left no choice. JH has refused to negotiate. He has autocratically refused a compromise deal that would have been cost-neutral. As JDs can't go to another employer, their only recourse is to resign from medicine or strike against their employer."i

The government is calling your bluff.
Either quickly leave the NHS and study for several years to be a banker or maybe get a job as a medic or paramedic assisting dedicated Cuban doctors working for about £10 per day in third world countries, OR accept the new contract. - Your choice.

Tofay 14:22 rachelrcrossley

I obviously don't know you personally and you might be a decent sort, but in your posts you are coming across as living in a bubble of inflated unearned expectations.
You seem to have little consideration, understanding, or empathy for the population you claim to be dedicated to.

Well, personally I think Rachel comes across as articulate, caring and intelligent.

And you lanchester come across as someone who is not prepared to engage in honest debate and who prefers to resort to personal insults.

Ok then, to address a specific point made by rachelcrossley Today at 14:22 hrs

"Rennie23 if you asked the doctors in your health centre why they work part time, I'm sure most of them would cite the increasingly unmanageable workload in primary care. GP stress and burn out is at an all time high, and there is a major recruitment crisis. Many older GPs are retiring and their posts cannot be filled."

Look around you in society rachelcrossley
Do you not think that many many people feel burnt out / ground down / made unwell by their jobs. Do they have the option to cut down their working hours or retire early?
NO.
Are the doctors expecting the above majority of the population to pay the doctors so much that the doctors can afford and be allowed to cut their working hours or retire early?
YES